Reinventing the Art of Hospitality - Bashar Wali, Practice Hospitality

Josiah: 0:00

Bashar Wali is one of the most recognized names in hospitality because he's done it all as a leading operator, investor, and hotel branding expert that 180,000 people follow on LinkedIn alone. While he's done it all, he's always on the hunt for how to improve, and today he shares his latest observations on what makes great hospitality.

What's a day in the life of Bashar look like?

Bashar: 0:43

How I spend my time is a function of what am I trying to do, because I feel that there's been monotony in what we do and, even though we're in a sexy business, it seems like we all do the same thing. And you know, I look at model rooms now for hotels that I'm working on and I walk in the room and I'm saying it's the same thing. So I try to find things that inspire me. Right, I want to do work that inspires me. I don't want to do work just for the sake of doing work. I want to do work that inspires me. So what I'm constantly on the look for is how do we? Our industry is hard to reinvent, right? We're sort of selling a bed in the shower, but how do we rethink our industry? How do we take all the new tools that we have, whether it's technology, whether it's AI, whether it's all the things and bits and pieces? How do we change the experience and make it different in a way? And I feel like brands, for example. Right, there are way too many brands out there. Does the world need the hotel brand? And the answer is absolutely not. Marriott is a 31 now. I can't get them straight, but I feel there are things in the lifestyle brand world that we haven't touched yet. So one of the exciting things I'm working on right now is I am working on a brand of my own not ready for prime time yet that, I feel is different, unique. We'll have a different perspective so that it's not just another. That really excites me, because I feel that I can make a difference and make an impact.

And you know, people throw around ESG loosely and they don't even know what it means anymore. They think recycling is ESG and it's so much deeper than that, and I think if we, as sort of the veterans of this industry, don't start setting the tone for what the future should look like, I think we are cowards. Just like we say, with global warming, our kids will deal with it. I think we have an opportunity right now, as veterans of this industry, to make changes that will be lasting, that will help the next generation, and really start getting us on the right path.

Josiah: 2:37

I think to your point of everybody starting to look and sound the same, you have a very interesting practice where, when you go on a trip, every night you stay at a new hotel. Why is that so?

Bashar: 2:48

It started like 10 years ago and now in hindsight, by the way, I say I wish I collected something or kept the proof of it because I am pretty confident that I hold the world record on this thing. So three nights in New York, I moved to three different hotels, never the same hotel twice and I've run out of hotels in many cities. It's hard to run out of New York, although I am closing in on running out, so I need some more supply in New York. But I initially started at. You know, people tour hotels, I tour hotels all the time. You tour hotels. I'm sure our listeners tour lots of hotels. I think there's an intimate experience when you sleep in a hotel because you're in a vulnerable state sleeping and, by the way, now you're learning about the toilet flush next door is too loud and you can hear it, and the elevator thing is too loud and the flashing light in the smoke detector is right in your eye. So it's a whole different experience when you sleep in a hotel. So initially I wanted to sort of see what's out there and really, being a perpetual student, I wanted to understand whether people are doing things better than we are. And sadly, the result of my hard work of jumping around hotels and, by the way, two weeks ago I stayed at the Moxy in Williamsburg, which was my 240th hotel in Manhattan. I learned that what I bring home often is more of what not to do rather than what to do, which sort of goes to show you that I think we've become an industry of shock and awe. We do things with that. I love these two words thoughtful and intentional. Don't do something just because have real intention behind it. But we've swung to the shock and awe side of the business where we want to do it just because we want to do something different. We want to outdo our competitors without regard to who's the audience. Do they care about it? Is it going to be annoying or not? So 240 hotels at the end of the day, I now can walk in a room and really speak with authority because I've paid my dues to sort of see what's out there and funny, by the way, like I will stay at a $2,000 a night Baccarat or Aman. But I will also stay at a $50 room hostel and share a room and share a bathroom because sometimes your least expected offering will be the thing you learn the most out of. So we sort of we look down upon those offerings when in fact they're doing really innovative things. So my advice is don't judge a book by its cover. Be brave enough to go experience different things in life across the globe.

Josiah: 5:04

What's something recently you've seen that surprised you?

Bashar: 5:07

funny, great question, and I get asked it all the time. It's never a thing that surprises me. It's never a thing, right? But I'll give you an example. I'm staying at the Omni Boston Seaport, and they have this clever idea of, instead of a coffee maker in the room which usually is crappy coffee, generally speaking, they had one of those machines in the hallway. In each hallway. You can get a cappuccino, you can get a latte, you get whatever you want, higher quality, you know it's on-demand, so it's all fresh, and I thought it was a really interesting way to address lack of space, reduce the amount of time required to clean a room and clean all these machines and all that. And I won't tell you what happens with those machines, wink wink, so clever idea. But in most other cases what I see is again shocking. All right, the walk of shame, kid in the mini bar who gives a shit right. So I always say if you want to impress me, make me feel special, make me feel like an individual. I was at the W in Bangkok, I'm announced one night and I never said do you know who I am? Or have someone call on my behalf. I make my own reservations, I show up on my own. I walk back into the room I'm traveling with my daughter and a friend and his daughter walk back into my room and there are four teddy bears which is their thing there on the bed, engraved with each of our names on them and there's a card that says from the person who did it. That says, Mr Wali, grateful you're staying with us. By the way, I've watched and use your TED talk in my training. I am grateful you've chosen our hotel. Literally, that hotel could have been. The sheets could have been dirty, there could have been a used diaper under the bed, it doesn't matter, because now I feel like in front of my family to right, I'm like hello, what's up, look at me. So they've managed to make me feel special enough in a way in the hotel is fantastic, by the way, in every way. But I think people underestimate the value of if you make someone feel special, they will forgive many of your sins. And instead, what do we do? We focus on things, which is hard to win the things game because everybody can spend more money on art and more money on things. But the very basic thing that we don't focus on is this idea of making me feel special. I recently trademark the sentence but logging for belonging, because I really truly feel that you succeed if you make me feel when I've arrived at your hotel in pick a city, that I'm home. And that's not an easy thing to do, but it's so simple not easy, but simple at the end of the that's where the magic lies, right?

Josiah: 7:28

I'm curious as you're doing this research, as you're out there experiencing these different hotels, do you save notes or capture these ideas, or are you just kind of seeing what say? What feelings stay with me over time?

Bashar: 7:40

I'm so ADD, like I'm not the guy to record. People say like, do hotel reviews? Man, I'm like I live. You get one word for me, maybe, right, literally one word, but funny, you say that. So I've now come to the realization that hotel rankings, who gives a shit? Five star, seven diamond, who cares? I'll tell you what I've distilled it down to. By the way, I often say funny anecdote to I'm a water pressure guy. I gotta wash the shampoo out of this area now. So I will trade a Four Seasons with mediocre water pressure for Hampton Inn with great water pressure. That to me is the last thing I do in a hotel room and I want it to work. So I say to people your diamonds don't matter to me. In that example, give me five shower heads, that's my five diamonds. Right, but really, after all this time and all this traveling, all this research, I've sort of said there are really two kinds of hotels. There's a memorable hotel and a forgettable hotel. And the sad reality is, out of my carnage of hotels on the road, very few are memorable. And the question is, what makes it memorable? Is it Damien Hurst? Will the mammoth skeleton dipped in gold sculpture up front that says I'm rich? Look at me, absolutely not. It is literally the moment of truth, as it were. Is my interaction with a human at two o'clock in the morning, when I'm coming off of a late flight. I've had a disastrous day. I'm hungry and I say, is there anything open? And someone says no, and the conversation. Or someone says unfortunately not. But I'll tell you what the kitchen makes sandwiches for a staff. At night. They save them for us. I'd be happy to give you out of those if you'd like. I'm yours for life. Again, it doesn't matter, nothing else matters. That's, to me, the memorable. What makes that hotel memorable? Now, look realistically. Obviously there are table stakes. You have to have good design and a comfortable bed and then then, then, then then, those used to be things that made you stand out there. Now ubiquitous. Those things get you in the game. They won't win you the game. And the question is, what wins you the game? And in my opinion, I maintain, and I've said this ad nauseam over the last decade it's people, interactions with people.

Josiah: 9:52

Yeah, well, and I think the notion that there are table stakes here, but that it's not a checklist of things and those things aren't going to win the game, and I think, as you're doing this research, it's not okay. I'm gonna take this coffee maker, necessarily, or this, you know piece of art, right, it's kind of how those physical things were arranged and presented in a way that supports, you know, the cast of people, providing that human experience but the coffee maker example.

Bashar: 10:20

By the way, what I love about it isn't it. It's that someone thoughtfully thought about. The room is crowded, the coffee is always crappy. We can't put one of those machine in each room. It's unrealistic. Otherwise would be the right answer. Okay, let's put it in the hallway. Now some folks I've talked to about this complain that like listen, I want to make my coffee in my underwear. I don't have to go out into the hallway. Would you rather have crappy coffee in your underwear or throw in a bathrobe and go get yourself a really nice latte, whatever? So it's not about it. It's about someone who thoughtfully and intentionally decided let's try this out.

Josiah: 10:51

Interesting. I well, I think what you're, what you're getting to, resonates with me because I think on my most recent trip I stayed at one of these kind of cool hip lifestyle Brands, or I should say trying to be cool and hip and what it just feels like, no matter what part of the world. This was in Europe, but they all start to kind of look the same and they're all kind of playing the same music and I think I don't know what zeitgeist they're trying to tap into. It's maybe something the ace hotel or some of your properties were Tapping into, I don't know 1015 years ago. But they're trying to just keep this train rolling and I don't know, it becomes boring, it hits, it's really wrong.

Bashar: 11:28

Really interesting point. I tell people Simon L A for nights. On the fifth morning I wake up and I say take the signs off these four hotels, shuffle them, put them back up randomly. I couldn't tell you the difference. And when curb comes up with a guide on how to create a boutique hotel, you know it's dead right, because everyone has Addison bulbs and Chevron carpet and brass and walnuts and everybody, to your point, has a rotating art in the gallery and local coffee in the lobby and and a tasting hour for kombucha. So what once was earth-shattering? We did. You know what Kimpton used to do the wine hour. And I can, I don't like wine. Let's do something unique. So we did. We did a morrow's on the lobby like an amaro tasting hour and a kombucha tasting hour. So all of a sudden you took something that was wise and instead of copying it, you innovated. But that was innovative back in the day. Kombucha tasting, wow right, Seattle Washington, it makes sense for Oregon, but now everybody does that. So hot, hot. I don't want you to go do shock and I don't want to do vinegar tasting in the lobby, because that would not be thoughtful, that would be shocking. All right, but let's really think about how can we do things that are innovative, that are not simply copying everyone else? And the problem is because the consumer is so much more sophisticated and exposed to a global sort of offering now, whether it's through the internet, social media, etc. They see and have expectations. So all that stuff has become ubiquitous and again, in my opinion, you can only do so much. And, by the way, as an owner, at some point we want to make some money. We can't keep throwing it back in and giving you things. So I feel like what I'm holding in on is this idea of longing for belonging. It doesn't cost you anything and I think it is the most effective. If you know, by the way, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, at the end of the day, at the bottom, there are all the basics, and I sort of say those are all the basics down our industry, good art, good branding, good design. Even when I'm standing at the urinal, there's a great, you know branding thing that says we're cool, look out at it. We have a message at the urinal my great congratulations. By the way, I've never met a cool person who walks up and says hi, I'm cool by definition. If you say that, you're not cool, anyway. So we've got to stop throwing things at it, because we've run out of things to throw at it and now we have to dream of stupid things to throw at it. Let's really distill down what it is. By the way, people say ask me why I got into the business. I grew up in the Middle East and I have this great saying. That to me is here's your Cornell master's degree in hospitality for free, in 20 seconds. When a stranger shows up at your door, feed him for three days before you ask him who he is, where he's from and where he's going, because by then he'll either have the strength to answer or you'll be such good friends it won't matter. Literally, that is hospitality. Literally, that is hospitality. Yet we as an industry have gone so far away from that. We think we know anything about you. We don't, and all we want to do hi, check it in Yep. Have you stayed with us before? Yes, silence. Why the fuck are you asking me if you're not going to do anything with it? By the way, I am titanium elite on Marriott. I've stayed in more merits than I care to tell you, and you know that the conventional wisdom is that 20% of your customers, give you 80% of your business. Those top road warriors, men and women, that are traveling nonstop, they're your people. I like my room meat locker 64 degrees year-round. You would think once, ever, ever in my entire hotel, stay across all brands, independent and otherwise someone would have found out that about me and remotely changed it. They don't have to go to the room. It's the easiest thing to do remotely change the temperature and took credit for it, not once, ever. Instead, I get wine and cheese and all the stuff that I could care less about that they wasted so much time and money on their part. And I say it's interesting, by the way, this idea of and I use this example a lot I am Diamond on Delta. I walk up to the gate. My name is on the list, number one on the list for the upgrade. Sure, I'll take your upgrade. I'm happy, but it doesn't make me feel special because in my mind it is a mathematical formula. But Bashar Wali did not get upgraded. Record number 5674 that traveled this many miles equals upgrade. Right, it's not me. Delta doesn't know who I am. They know the record. I sit on the plane at mid-flight. The flight attendant comes out with a postcard handwritten by the pilot thanking me for my continued business throughout the pandemic and for being a million mile or whatever. That is me and makes me feel like I am the king of the world. Yes, I'll take your upgrade, but the upgrade to me kind of like the amenity in the hotel. You have a list that said VIP, but I didn't get the amenity. The VIP got the amenity, which is just a record, but if you find something about me, like in the bear example I gave you in Bangkok, now I feel like a million bucks because it's about me, and I think that's the part that we've really lost sight of as an industry.

Josiah: 16:13

And it's interesting because you gave a whole range of examples, from the temperature of the room to the bears, to the personal interaction, and that's something I wanted to ask you about, kind of like, we talk a lot about personalization how do you make someone feel special? And so it's less of the generic. Here's something fancy that most people would like and it's something for you, Bashar. We have spent the time we're paying attention to how you're moving throughout our space, the conversations that we've had, and it's for you, it's uniquely for you.

Bashar: 16:42

You know CRM. People think they know what it is. They don't know what it is. They think CRM is a confirmation email and a priest-day email. That is not what that is. We as a society now are so public, our lives are so public. It's so easy to find out lots of things about us and technology has now enabled us to go. If you have my record in your database, you can have a software, piece of software, scrape the entire internet and try to give you information about me that then you can utilize to make me feel special and personalize my state Above and beyond. You ask me to fill out a form Because, back to the Marriott thing, I fill out a form to be a member of their loyalty program, which we can talk about separately, but at the end of the day, I am giving you so much about me and you do nothing with it. So I think this technology idea of we as an industry have failed to use technology to our advantage to help us remove friction out of the transaction. And when I talk about friction I go to that zip code field, as I'm trying to book a reservation with your hotel and you're forcing me to have to manually change my keyboard to Alfa in America. Shame on you. So you know what's going to happen I'm going to go to Expedia and do one, two, three and my reservations is booked. So we failed there to remove the friction. So I think that's an area we need to work on. But then this idea of being able to collect data. By the way, I am shocked that Hilton doesn't have literally five PhD data scientists from MIT sitting at their headquarters working on what do we need to know about our guests and how can we utilize it not only to market which to me should be secondary to in fact create loyalty with them and make them loyal fans for life and then market to them appropriately? You think about Instagram. Right, Literally, I'll say the word skis now and there'll be a ski ad in my Instagram. But that, to me, is thoughtful, because they know I am looking at it. We all worry about that, big brother. I mean, you can turn all that stuff off, obviously, if you don't want it. I want it because I want targeted things. Don't show me wedding dresses if I have no interest in wedding dresses, but if I interest in skiing, show me skis. So, as an industry, we fail to use data, big data, especially the big companies, because they have the resources to set the bar to allow us to, in fact, create ultra-customized experiences that will resonate with our guests Instead. Oh yeah, you like green M&Ms on your pillow? Fantastic, who gives a shit?

Josiah: 18:57

Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to talk kind of. The last thing I wanted to touch on was the path forward. What does the future of hospitality look like? I think you've touched on many different elements of this, but you talk about this notion of ultra customization. We were just speaking about this in the context of technology, I guess. How do you think about this notion of ultra customization broadly, and why is that the future?

Bashar: 19:20

I mean, look, I think gone are the days where we go to a restaurant and sit there for five hours and have 72 meals with 92 pieces of silverware and all that. People don't want that anymore. That was something you did as a badge of honor, as a bragging right, and if you subscribe to the theory today that travel truly is the new social currency, that's how you get your street credit. I mean, think about it Back in the day. You show up with a fancy watch. You showed up with a fancy car. That was your statement that I'm somebody and I've arrived. And pay close attention. Today I meet people within a minute we're talking about oh my God, where'd you go? Where have you been? Where have you traveled? So travel truly has become. And think about the emerging economies that have not experienced travel like we have historically. They're joining the bandwagon and it is becoming such a big thing. So to me, the path forward is how do we create memorable hotels, memorable experiences? I'll use the term broadly and, by the way, the word memorable I will already love about it is my conversation with you is either going to be memorable or forgettable. I can describe it 100 different ways, but the most meaningful way, in my opinion, to describe it is memorable, because if it's memorable, win how you got there is inconsequential. But to me, creating memorable experiences in whatever way we find it and, by the way, memorable could be really bad, because usually if you're good enough, you're neither memorable nor forgettable, you're just good enough. If you're forgettable, you're really bad. But memorable could also be really bad.

Josiah: 20:43

Right, and I've had some really memorable in a good way, but it's interesting, though, even just hearing your travel experiences. The thousands of hotels that you've stayed in, the hotels that you talked about in our conversation, stood out for a reason, and I think because they exemplified the sort of hospitality that you've been advocating for Absolutely.

Bashar: 21:02

And again, love the Baccarat New York. Ask me what kind of flooring is in the bathroom. I don't know, I don't care. Ask me what kind of whatever is in the whatever, it doesn't matter. That's not what I bring home with me. A hotel experience is interesting because you spend 300, 500, 2000, whatever the number may be, and you bring home nothing with you. Maybe you steal a towel, right, but at the end of the day, if you can make it memorable and I go home to my wife and I say, honey, you won't believe this hotel I stayed at did X, that to me is a win. Or me telling you about a hotel that I've had experience in, that's a win. So the future is how do you focus on making it truly memorable? How do you remove your and your designers and your branding team and then Ego's out of the way and design things for the end user right and with them in mind? And how do you in fact remove the noise and the friction and spend your energy and time on things that matter? Art Just because you own 10 Picasso's and you put one on the lobby doesn't make it interesting. Who gives a shit? Why is it there? What does it mean? We are. Please don't throw up in your mouth when I say this term that I throw up in my mouth every time I hear storytellers. We humans are storytellers. There's something again innate, in the Darwinian sense, about us we want to be part of a story, we want to tell the story, we want to share the story. I feel like a hotel needs to have a reason, a why that resonates, and it can be so explicit. Don't, every time you do something cool, don't put a sign that says, oh, this window is cool and here's why Let me have a little bit of sense of discovery. Let those who find it without a sign appreciate it so much more than most that will see the sign and be like, yeah, okay, fine. So I think again, creating memorable experiences, really thinking about what guests needs and wants. Enough with the flashing light and the smoke detector and the thermostat, like, be thoughtful about those things. For God's sake, put stadium lighting in the bathroom with a dimmer. I've never by the way, designers will love this I've never once in 30 years in this industry heard, heard directly or indirectly, about someone complaining that the TV is too big or that the bathroom is too bright. Think about that statement for a minute? Never. So put stadium lighting in the goddamn bathroom and let them dim it if they don't like it. Yet we insist again, back to infuse, forcing our views on you. Forcing our views on you. Now, if you tell me you're a no TV hotel, okay, I got it. I can make the choice with you, but don't let me show up expecting one and say, oh no, we don't have TVs in our room. Don't make that call for me. Let me make it. So. Really think about what matters. What are people interested in? And I'll close with this, which is and I do a whole talk on this Hotels, historically, were inspirational and aspirational. They were inspirational in that they had better design than your home, that better art than your home they had that and aspirational because they had Wi-Fi. You didn't flat screen TV, you didn't pay per view movies, you didn't trim service, you didn't Fast forward to today. I don't know about you, but most people I know have better art, better mattresses, better design, technology by God, by leaps and bounds, better Postmates at your fingertips, etc. Etc. Etc. So how do we again regain our position as inspirational and aspirational bastions for these guests that have lost that? You know that thing that we used to give them. They've lost. And my proposition to you is when I go home, the only person that runs to the door is my dog. No one else cares that I'm home. And if you manage to make me feel like, using that analogy, you run to the door when I come in your hotel, that's gonna. That will make it aspirational because I don't get that anywhere else, and that makes it inspirational because I'm inspired because I feel like I matter.