Building Booking.com: Lessons In Culture, Innovation, And Global Growth from Behind The Scenes - Lou Zameryka

Josiah: I've been looking forward to this for a long time. You and I had a chance to talk six weeks ago or so. It was just awesome to hear some of the stuff you're up to now. We're going to get to that in this conversation. But I can't help but think we're in New York. I come here every year for the NYU Investment Conference, whether it's that conference or so many others. I feel like you were always at the center of the room, surrounded by people. You always came across to me as somebody who knew everybody, everybody knew you, and you had built these really strong relationships. And in doing so, built an incredible world-class company from the very earliest stages. And that company is Booking.com, which of course everybody knows now, but it didn't start out that way. So in our conversation, I'm excited to get into kind of the story of that, what you've learned through your career so far. But maybe to kick us off, take us back to how the Booking.com, your first role there came to be, the earliest days. 

Lou: So even if I go back just a little bit before as to why I chose Booking. My first jobs were all in hotels, right? Front office, sales, reservations, revenue management. And I had particularly been doing new hotel openings and new hotel openings are grueling. So you're working all types of weird hours with all types of weird things happening. And I used to say like, your hotel is not officially open until it leaks on your head, right? Until you have this massive unexpected leak, that could be 60, 90 days after you're open, six months, it doesn't matter. You really didn't make it out of the opening phase until something is leaking that you didn't expect to leak. But with that in mind, when Priceline had purchased Booking.com, I had a friend at Priceline and she said, hey, you should really take a look at this company we bought and consider we're going to need to expand it outside of Europe. It was in a couple of core European countries. When she explained to me that it would be partial work from home because Priceline's offices were in Connecticut and they needed someone in New York City to work with the hotels in that market to start, and that it was basically Monday through Friday, nine to five, I was like, ooh, I have yet to experience that kind of thing in the entire time I've been in my hotel career. Quickly, it became attractive from a lifestyle standpoint. I could actually maybe go on a date. Finally, I was able to go on a date when I worked at booking and found my wife and married her. It worked out in the short term pretty nicely. What I also liked about it was I understood what Booking would do for the customer as well as the hotelier. As a customer back then, there was no way for you to compare hotels on the internet, where you could then purchase the hotel using an agency model, right? So you could go to all of the other OTAs, but you always had to prepay at time of booking, where Booking was an agency model, you would work with a travel agent, but you were directing yourself. So I recognized it as a young traveler myself, as the first time I could go on a website, compare a bunch of things, book them, and not have to beg my friends to give me the money back for a trip we're taking nine months from now, right? And not to have all that money tied up for nine months while waiting. So I said, wow, that's pretty useful. I bet a lot of people will find that useful. Then from the hotel perspective, it was specifically around international and interregional travelers which was always a hard to get demographic, right? You would usually go and get what I used to say to the hotels, like, you know how you get German tourists now? I said, yeah. I'm like, you know, a busload of Germans will show up and they were all in your lobby at one time. Like, yeah, well, this will get you like one German at a time. And I was like, that's going to resonate with hoteliers. And it did, right? People liked that first analogy. But then when they realized as well that the other option it gave them was to actually change their rates to their international source markets. Because back at the beginning, These were all things that you would pre-negotiate for years in advance. When we were starting out with Booking in 2006, 2007, 2008, rates were going up, up, up, and up in major cities. If you put a brochure out in international markets, three years ago with what you thought was going to be your rate for the current day, you were pretty disappointed when that rate got booked, you had nothing to do about it. The other element that I thought our hotel partners would be really interested in is accessing that international demand, one guest at a time, and the ability to actually fluctuate their rates in those markets to get ultimately a better REVPAR.

Josiah: I want to come back to the story of you building this company, but I want to pause here because for people listening that are thinking about what is next for them in their career, I'm fascinated by this concept of tailwinds or these meta trends that are happening. It feels like you get extra momentum if you are riding a wave of something happening in our world. We might get to what's going on in our conversation, but just to highlight a couple of things that you pointed out, I think something that stood out to me is solving hard problems. You illustrated what that is for the hotelier. for the consumer, what that is, it's about making something easy. Is there anything else that comes out to you to this notion of identifying, you know, what might have tailwinds that from your experience there?

Lou: Yeah, you're right. Looking for a tailwind is always really important. And then your job, once you find one of those, is to remove as much friction as possible from ahead of it. And that could be excellent operations, that could be putting the right pieces in place, that could be anything that you identify as friction from getting the outcome of what that tailwind is attempting to do and getting into the momentum of the actual business. And what I've seen in the past is that it does take some foresight, and it does take curiosity to find these tailwinds. So it's not like everything is just going to strike you over the head and go, oh, this is brilliant. And wow, there's a lot of momentum here, and I should just dive in. Sometimes that happens, but that's actually a later phase that people sometimes observe as being early. But actually, if you go back, there were these earlier people that first through curiosity hit on that particular tailwind and started working at that problem. So I think it is really critical to identify where you want to play. And then to the point of why it would work for the hotel, why it would work When you're doing business together, you're ultimately entering into a partnership. It should be really clear what both partners want to get out of it and how putting those partners together is going to create that value. If you can't do that and can't do that in a way that gives you the outcome you're both looking for in a very stable way, so in our case in business, maybe in a very profitable way, with that tailwind leading to growth, there's no sense in doing the thing. You have to be meticulous in finding these attributes and then going all in, and just saying, I'm going to go in this spot. I'm going to be very aware, test and learn, see what's happening, but I'm going to commit. I'm going to commit the best of me to getting this result, and I'm going to monitor how well I'm doing, and I'm going to make adjustments. I think that's the key thing.

Josiah: It sounds like you're starting to touch on this, but I'm very fascinated on what you learned about creating something that has never existed before, right? Because if you rewind the clock to early days of booking, this whole model didn't exist. And so you're starting to kind of get into testing here. We could talk about this, but in general, I'd love to get your thoughts and learnings around how do you create in a, I don't know what you call it, a white space or place that has never, you're creating this brand new thing.

Lou: Yeah. Well, I think if I go back to think about the early days of Booking and in general, it became really well-known our experimentation culture, right? So we were running a thousand AB experiments a day, right? So different versions of the site, anybody in engineering or development could actually put those experiments live. take them off if the data is proving that it's not working, but we were a big test and learn culture. And I keep saying culture, and I find it really interesting because testing and learning could just be a principle that you apply to your business, but it was so important to us because we were in a spot that none of us had been in. So it's not just that this agency model of an OTA was new or newish, it was also that everybody was really young. These were all kind of new positions for most of us. So we had to really test and learn everything, right? Because there wasn't much of a bag of tricks we could show up at at 25, 26 years old and say, in all our past experience doing this, it always works like this, right? So in our culture, it was important to embed that testing and learning and that data centricity, right? So we led with understanding the data so that we can make decisions. And And that as a cultural item versus a principle is super important because that allows you to not get into situations that many businesses find themselves in, where it's like the highest paid person's opinion is what matters, the CEO's opinion is what matters. Because when you have a culture, an actual culture of testing and learning and utilizing data for making decisions, rather than a principle, a principle you can put another principle against. A culture, it's pretty hard to put anything against it. Imagine you're the CEO of a culture that has been formed and agreed to, that we're data-centric and we test and learn. Well, you can't just go, I'm the CEO and that's the way it goes, because people would then wonder about this inconsistency and say, no, but our culture is this and you're the leader of the culture. Why would it be so that our leader would tell us this? So it allowed us to really have a lot of freedom at all levels and create a really non-hierarchical company, which again, led to a lot of speed, a lot of innovation, a lot of comfortableness, being very curious in finding new opportunities. And I think that mix of things just, again, with the tailwind of online travel growing, just helped us to consistently kind of innovate and succeed.

Josiah: It seems there's something about culture that enables rapid growth and scaling that I'm fascinated by culture, because for one, it feels like everyone has a different definition. I'd love to get yours. But it seems a little bit woo-woo and touchy-feely, but then you start getting into hearing these case studies. And it does seem that was integral into making these incredible organizations grow or these amazing success stories. So I might ask you, how would you define culture?

Lou: Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned culture because culture and strategy, I think, are both kind of these misunderstood words. But for me, culture is really completely about how will we show up together to ourselves and to others to do the work we claim we want to do and to reach the achievements we want to achieve. And that is both practical, I think, because you mentioned woo-woo. I think it's very practical what you can put into a set of values in your culture, and is very inspirational as well, the woo-woo. And if you can kind of put those together the right way, in a real authentic way, right, not forcing cultural elements that just aren't there, you can always evolve your culture too, right? So if you see that a new value is really starting to show itself as something that's important for the future of your company, whatever that stage is, you can go ahead and embed that value, right? So the values at Booking when I left were not entirely the same as the ones when we created our original values, right, and culture. There was, of course, a very foundational thread that stayed the same, but in different areas of the business or different phases of the business, it does need to change. So to me, it's really about how do we choose to show up and do the things we say we're going to do, and what should people expect when they see us in action, right, together internally and to the external world, you know, our customers and our partners.

Josiah: I want to come back to this because you're known for getting potential out of people and manifesting it into real business results. And so I want to come back to this notion, but I'm going to link in the show notes to great conversations that you've had with some others talking about the personal side of the story here. There's one piece that came up in some of the other conversations you've had around what it felt like to go into the executive teams at some of the biggest hotel companies in the world, your young company, your young guy yourself, What did you find useful in having that confidence, but also establishing credibility so that you could have a productive business conversation in those environments?

Lou: Yeah. Well, if I go way back, even before Booking, I still remember so vividly the first time I realized I was about to be extremely out of my element and was going to need to create a relationship and get some business done. So I had done a new hotel opening, And I was the front desk supervisor. Over time, through being friendly with the sales team and everything, a sales manager left. And they asked me, hey, would you like to be a sales manager? I said, okay, yeah, sounds good. So I had this hotel, suburban Long Island, near a big corporate park, and I was taking over accounts. So starting to get to know them and everything. I mean, I still to this day, I can't believe it, but one was a very large defense contractor. And I needed to meet with the head of corporate travel and another person. And I was gonna take him to the restaurant next door to the hotel, go to lunch. And the night before I'm laying in bed, and I'm probably 22 at this point, And I'm like, what am I going to talk to these people about? Like, I am 22 years old, you know, they're in their mid fifties, 30 years at a defense contractor. I was like, what is this conversation going to be like? And I used to always read a lot. I still do. And kind of such random things as well. Like I kept up on the news in the local area, but also I read Harvard Business Review every time it came out, just weird stuff like that. And so I remember sitting there thinking to myself in bed, like, okay, I can navigate these conversations. There's going to be a lot of challenges in relatability to our world when we start to talk about personal life, but I can do it. The next day, I had a great lunch with two ladies, great tour of the hotel. We had an amazing conversation about local Long Island and things like that. I navigated it. From that moment on, I realized like, I think I can do this, right? I just did that at 22 in suburban Long Island with a defense contractor. I think I can make relationships because people just want to get to know about you. They want to tell you about them. So just allow for that to occur and sort the rest out as you go. Then I started watching a lot of improv comedy to make sure I can improvise well, and that also helped out.

Josiah: It's great hearing from you because not only in that experience, but then, you know, eventually how you built booking, it stands out to me because I think. You've also talked about a core value of yours is, is being useful. And I used to work in sales as well, and I'm more introverted and I feel I always shied away. I think from some of those elements of relationship building, because I thought, Oh, is it because like your offer isn't that great that you need to kind of do all this like whining and dining. Can you just be direct and here's the value. You're one of the few people I've met that I feel like balances both of those. And what I'm hearing from this story is, yes, be useful, but that human connection matters as well.

Lou: Yeah. Ultimately, we are humans living on this planet, right? Totally, at least from my perspective, totally unsure about exactly what we're supposed to do here. So I try not to act like it's so predestined what my activities and outcomes are supposed to be this entire time. So instead, I just try and make a human connection and find a way for that connection between myself and others to be useful, right? And sometimes that's just people walk away with a good feeling. That's pretty useful in a day, right? Leaving a conversation saying, I feel pretty good about the time I just spent. That would be fine. Sometimes you can create a business partnership out of it. Sometimes that business partnership starts 48 hours later. Sometimes it happens in the quarter, hopefully, if you're a salesperson, right? But it could be years later. And I think just the idea of finding people that you can come together, find some commonality, create a relationship, get to know each other, get to know what each other are not only about, but trying to achieve. you kind of can't go wrong with spending some time doing that because again, life is pretty long and creating kind of a good group of people and a good relationship web around the world will be useful to you and useful to them because you never know when someone's going to change their perspective, change their role, change what they're doing. And suddenly you and they, through that common understanding of each other when you got to first meet, have a whole new way to collaborate, right? You unlock a whole new level of potential and capability. So for me, it's like, There's nothing transactional about creating that relationship. There could be transactions that create from it, but ultimately just form a good relationship, find great people. We all know there's a lot of jerks out there. Your job in life is to hopefully surround yourself by awesome people and avoid jerks.

Josiah: That's good advice. You bring up that example. I imagine as you started to step into these executive meetings with some of the biggest hotel companies in the world, is that same mentality, that same approach served you well in those rooms as well?

Lou: Yeah, I mean, look, you can't go into some of the biggest brands in hospitality in your 20s and not expect to feel a little bit out of place, right? We did have a new offering, right, in a growing space in technology. So maybe there are people like, yeah, they're going to be younger, right? It's technology. It's the next phase of some of our industry's tools. But, you know, if you go into a Marriott, a Hilton, an IHG boardroom, there's definitely a lot of seniority in there in terms of the decision-makers, in terms of even from a sales perspective, like the gatekeepers and other folks. But again, it comes down to finding a common ground for your collaboration with that person, getting to know them, and being confident that the whole reason you're in that room is that whatever you came to talk about piqued their interest. No one has to let you in that room. which means that you should have a bit of confidence that you can and do belong in that room and can and will provide as much value as you can. So that was my main focus. It's like, what do I know about this organization where I believe we could help them? And what can I learn about them where I can then understand better how we can help them in the future?

Josiah: I want to talk a little bit about negotiating because it feels like almost an extension of some of the themes that you've talked about, of relationship building, how you like to do business. You talked about building productive partnerships. Negotiation, when you're working in sales, when you're doing these big deals, you're responsible for the biggest deals in the company. Can you speak a little bit more to what you found useful and productive when negotiating these deals?

Lou: Yeah. Well, I would like to make sure I always kept in mind that what's going to get us to the end of a negotiation and what's going to have a long-term partnership is that we all have win-wins, right? And the negotiation isn't an end, right? It's the beginning actually of the next several years, however long that deal term will be, of the partnership. And you need to keep that in mind that this is the beginning of what you choose to build on. It is not an outcome in itself. There are outcomes that you're going to celebrate. There are ones that you hopefully feel okay-ish about. And there's ones maybe you're not going to like, but they got you to the other ones that you want to celebrate. And so creating that true win-win, being respectful of the other party, what their desires are, what they want to achieve, and how you might be able to find a way to achieve that with them based on your own goals, really critical. Because again, it's the starting point. It is not the end. You don't walk out and put this pristine piece of paper in a little box and go, OK, we did that. See you in three years. You have to then go live that thing. And people need to understand that in both organizations and why they're doing it. Again, it needs to be something that's going to help remove friction, not introduce friction. Because if you feel like you've gotten a short-term win in a negotiation and you really pulled one over on those other guys, I hate to tell you, but when you execute that, it will become very obvious that A, you didn't pull one over or B, if you did, they're starting to recognize it and there's going to be a lot of friction. So you really can't do that kind of stuff in developing, again, what is going to be a business relationship through the tool of negotiation, not I am negotiating because that's what I was here to do.

Josiah: That's great advice. And I want to talk a little bit about building great business relationships internally as well. You have a reputation for getting the most, the best out of the people that you work with as a people leader. And again, you started one of the very first few employees ad booking, you know, building the America's business. And then, you know, look at the organization it is today. What have you found useful in helping people be as productive as they can be and reach their best?

Lou: Well, I try and make it really clear. So first of all, I think very long-term. I can't help it, to be honest. Sometimes I wish I wasn't always thinking too long-term in the future, but I can't help it. But the general idea is make sure that your team knows that your goal is to get the most out of their potential, right? So they're a teammate, which means I really want to understand them, their strengths, their weaknesses, so I can put them in the best position to succeed. Succeed at the goals that are tied to why I hired them and what our business wants to achieve, but in general, succeed at life, right? Like you have to look way past the stuff that you're asking that person to do right now and truly develop them to continue to deliver at all different phases of their own maturity and your organization's maturity. And again, starting in a situation like booking, when that strikes you as obvious, it's very useful, right? So I stopped and said, well, we're going to need to grow this company very big. So I can't just have great salespeople because once I reach maybe 10 great salespeople, I'm going to need great managers, right? So I need to start thinking about, of these hires, who can manage? and who's maybe better in this phase as an individual contributor, right? Who even wants to do that? So then when you start in thinking just how to split people between those two tracks for their growth, you then start to think, well, what do they ultimately want, right? Because maybe some of them will be managers for a while, but transition into something else. Maybe they have aspirations even beyond travel. And that was important for me too, to say to people, look, I want the best out of you at booking so that whatever it is you're going to try and achieve after this, whether it's with us or not, people look at you as the best as well. That's going to be good for my employer brand, right, where they go, oh, wow, people that leave booking, they really have a lot to offer. That's going to be great, right, to get me future new great people, to get our employer brand name out there. And it's going to be great for the people that have developed. So to me, it's really, again, you got to understand long-term what you need as a business and long-term what people need to succeed, and then just provide it and kind of get out of their way and let them do their thing.