Aman to Tourism Western Australia to CEO of Nammos Hotels & Resorts: Carolyn Turnbull on Building a Global Career Across the World of Luxury Hospitality

Josiah: In today's episode, we're going to hear the career story of Carolyn Turnbull, who, as you'll hear in this conversation, started with Aman and then led Tourism Western Australia and is now leading Nammos Hotels and Resorts as CEO. The reason I wanted to share this conversation is to give you a little bit of a preview into what it can look like to build relationships, to build experience that can move across different areas within the travel and hospitality ecosystem. This episode is hosted by our career correspondent, Emily Goldfisher, who, of course, is also the founder of hertelier. It's an excellent publication. I'll link in the show notes where you can learn more. But keep listening to hear Carolyn's journey because I think it's going to show you what it can look like to build a career, to build leadership, to build influence, and to create something really special in hospitality. Let's get into it.

[intro]

Emily: How did you first get into the industry?

Carolyn: I grew up in a small country town south of Sydney and I always had the desire to travel and explore the world, but at the age of 18 I wasn't sure what that meant or where my career would take me. I was a scholarship winner for a course straight after school in travel and tourism, and I immediately knew that I was on the right path. I was so excited by what the industry represented. And I started from the ground up in operations in hotels in Sydney, and then really found my passion and momentum in the world of sales and marketing. So from a young age, I was appointed as the international sales manager at the Intercontinental in Sydney, where I was very passionate about the world of distribution and the power of a brand resonating with the global market. From there, I had the opportunity to move to Singapore where I joined Hyatt International and I spearheaded the first outbound sales office in Singapore, where I spent two years before I had the opportunity of meeting Adrian Zecha, the founder of Aman. And I always dreamed of working for Aman because once I knew my selected industry, in our case it was hospitality, I always thought, who is the very, very best at their craft? And I knew Aman was the pinnacle. So in 2004, I had this rare opportunity of meeting Adrian and the rest was history. So in January 2005, I joined, where I had a very enjoyable 10 years with Adrian and the team of Aman, where I went on to really strengthen the portfolio's awareness across the global travel trade and distribution networks globally. It was at a time where we had about 18 resorts globally for Aman. And when I left, we had 26 properties in those 10 years. So it was an amazing opportunity with a very small infrastructure at corporate level in Singapore. We were very hands on deck. So whilst I officially was General Manager of Global Sales at the time, it was a really insightful opportunity to have exposure to also the development side of the business, technical services, all areas around marketing, investment opportunities and so on. And Adrian was very transparent in his vision of bringing these really unique properties to life. And I knew I was in the right place. Having that privilege and insight into the curation of one of the world's best portfolios was a great opportunity. I built an amazing international team. And around 2016, I transitioned when Adrian left the organization and was appointed the inaugural CEO of a new hotel portfolio called Azerai, still headquartered out of Singapore. And we developed two beautiful properties in Vietnam. And then at that time, after 15 years in Singapore, we transitioned back to Australia. So over the last six, seven years, I've done a variety of different leadership roles. And more recently, I was the CEO of Tourism Western Australia. So I took all of my international hospitality experience and applied it to a market that was very different. So I treated it as an opportunity to position the destination at a very high end level. And then more recently, I was approached for this extraordinary, rare and unique role, CEO of Nammos Hotels and Resorts. And there was an immediate sense of trust because the founder and chairman of Nammos, Petros Stathis, who's a Greek entrepreneur, originally from Athens, came back into my life because during Aman, he was the owner, continues to be the owner of Aman Venice and also Aman Sveti Stefan, Montenegro. Petros has resided in Dubai for over 10 years now and saw an opportunity and approached the founders of Nammos in Mykonos, which has been operating for the last 20 years. It's an iconic beach club concept, world-renowned. Those that know Nammos know Nammos. It's quite an insider circle of highly affluent individuals that frequent Mykonos each season. And Petros spearheaded the evolution of that beach club concept and brought it to Dubai back in the early 2000s, five years ago. And it went on to become the most successful restaurant in the world, turning over $71 million a year, surpassing some of the most powerful restaurants, including Nobu Malibu, and has become an absolute powerhouse. And so the brand within the Middle East is extremely well known now. And so why not leverage off that and create an extraordinary ultra luxury hotel and resorts portfolio? So once again, the rest is history. I was sponsored for this amazing opportunity and interviewed with the board and was offered the job a couple of months ago. So it was just at an opportune time when our children were graduating high school and both with a desire to go into hospitality. Our daughter started at EHL in February, just gone, and our son's transitioning from university in Australia to EHL this September.

Emily: Wow. Does your husband work in the business also?

Carolyn: He does not. He's in the mining services sector based in Australia and has come from an oil and gas background. So he is just finishing up and transitioning also to be based in Dubai with me and he'll be there in about a month's time. So here we go, it's another chapter in our family's journey. And I'm super excited because I've spoken to a number of people in the industry and many opportunities that I was exploring were all based in the Middle East. So it's all meant to be. And I was fascinated by, so before I share that part of the story, going back to Petros' vision of now evolving into a world-class hotel portfolio. Last year we opened our first property, our first hotel in Mykonos. So it sits just behind the famous beach club in Psarou beach in Mykonos. And that's 26 keys, stunning little property and doing extremely well in its second season. And then about two years ago, we signed an extraordinary partnership with Red Sea Global. And Red Sea Global is, under the PIF, Public Investment Fund in Saudi Arabia, one of the giga projects.

Emily: Yeah, I've seen lots about it. Not about your hotel, so tell me about that.

Carolyn: And this is one of the most exciting factors why I was so intrigued by this position. Not only do I get to spearhead the portfolio, position the brand accurately within the industry, but also really guide that pipeline of thoughtful destinations. I attended the World Travel and Tourism Council Global Summit in Riyadh, it must be three years ago now, because when I was in that role as CEO of Tourism WA, I said, okay, if we're really going to have a seat on the global stage, I really felt that bringing WTTC Global Summit to Western Australia was going to be something that we should do. And I was invited to attend the event in Riyadh. So when I was in Riyadh, I thought, oh my God, this is such a fascinating destination with a huge bold vision for 2030. With all of these giga projects, I was thinking, I would love to be involved in one of these. So then when the opportunity to lead Nammos came up, and Petros was telling me about our project in Amaala, I was so intrigued and excited. And then when I was successful being appointed, I've now been back to Riyadh, I've been to the site in Amaala on the Red Sea, and our property is a perfect position within the master plan. We've got an amazing location, we have our own private island, we will be introducing the Nammos restaurant concept. We are the first hotel together with Equinox and Six Senses to open in December this year.

Emily: Oh my gosh. So it's just around the corner.

Carolyn: So we are gearing up for pre-opening as we speak. And that is going to be 110 keys. And that's our first opportunity as an all-encompassing luxury resort because Mykonos is 26 keys, so a much smaller offering. But here we are offering a larger footprint. We're going to have our first ever Nammos spa. We're obviously bringing and integrating the Nammos restaurant concept in, which will be amazing, and a beautiful offering, not just for our guests, but all of the new hotels opening in Amaala. And two other distinctive food and beverage concepts, Nalu, which is our all-day dining concept, and Ilios, which is a Mediterranean-inspired restaurant as well. So this is property number two, and property number three in the Maldives. It's a beautiful, exclusive island with 48 keys and seven private residences, and we're under development there due to open in 2027. So in a very short period of time, we've actually achieved a lot for a new little brand that has bold ambitions to open 10 to 12 hotels in the next 10 years. And when I talk about thoughtful selection of curated destinations, it's about bringing the right locations, the right design, the right guest experiences that will differentiate us in that ultra luxury space.

Emily: What makes the club itself so cool, like Nammos, because I've not been? Like, why has it become the hottest restaurant globally and in Dubai? And my second question to that is, do they serve alcohol? Is it mainly for foreigners or is it for locals as well?

Carolyn: Do you mean in Mykonos or do you mean in Amaala?

Emily: I mean in, well, I actually meant in Dubai for the restaurant.

Carolyn: Oh, do they serve alcohol? Yes, they do. Yes, they do. They do serve alcohol in Dubai and you probably know that Saudi is a dry country. But they are looking to introduce gradually alcohol becoming available and so we will be at the forefront of that movement where we will be sensitive to the cultural intricacies but equally ensure that our Nammos restaurant experience is brought to life in the most appropriate way. So what makes Nammos so different? It's the x-factor. So we've got this real sense of vibrancy and lifestyle that's like no other. So Nammos is so renowned from its electric ability to connect with people and create these amazing experiences through the power of food and beverage, entertainment and just that intuitive guest experience that I've referenced. In addition to that, we also have an exclusive Nammos Village concept, which is in collaboration with some of the world's best brands. So we work closely with the likes of Dior, Loro Piana, Chanel to elevate and activate our retail spaces.

Emily: I see. So it's an all-encompassing lifestyle experience. And we'll be looking to do the same in Amaala and also in the Maldives and our forthcoming... Is there music?

Carolyn: I mean, is it DJs, bands? I mean, what's... Absolutely. Yeah, DJs every day.

Emily: Oh, wow. So that is what I think. And what's the age of your customer, your target customer?

Carolyn: Honestly, our tagline is endless joy. And I think that touches the hearts of any age bracket. But I think it's those that are seeking, we're targeting people that are seeking the joy of a vibrant environment, world-class food and beverage, an environment to enjoy with their family and friends. It's upbeat, but it's high end.

Emily: Yeah. Wow. It sounds amazing. I'm excited to try it at some point soon. Hopefully I get to Greece or the Red Sea would be amazing. Let's talk a little bit more about your career journey and maybe what advice you might have for women or anyone just starting out in your career. I mean, you're a mom. You've navigated having kids and going on maternity leave while yet seemingly continuing to go up the ladder. So what's really kept you focused in your career and how have you done it?

Carolyn: A real sense of focus. I've always stayed true to the industry that I love and adore. I've always aligned myself with good people, inspiring pioneers and prominent figures in the industry, such as Adrian Zecha and now Petros Stathis, both of which are underpinned by very strong, trustworthy collaborations. And look, it's never without the kinks along the way, but I see those kinks as building a bit of resilience. I do think the balance of being a working mom has given me the robust ability just to keep getting back up and staying focused on my career path. I've thoroughly enjoyed navigating this diverse industry that we all love. Having the ability to travel and experience different destinations and be based abroad has also given me exposure that I wouldn't have had if I had just stayed in my home country. So I think that brings a sense of maturity and insight that one may not get otherwise. But yeah, I think if you find your niche and you then find your tribe within that industry, it's a really rare thing to find in anyone's life. And I'm just really grateful for those that have given me the opportunity along the way that have trusted me with big roles at a time that I may not have necessarily been ready for, but then you lean into it and if you can prove your ability, then the next opportunity comes along and you just keep building. But yeah, I mean, gosh, in my wildest dreams, I wouldn't have known that the next opportunity around the corner was to become the inaugural CEO of an exciting new evolving ultra luxury brand. But I feel really well placed and ready to take it on. I'm at a time in my life that I have the capacity to do so, with my children graduating and now transitioning to EHL, which is an incredible journey in itself, the fact that our two children are also choosing hospitality as their career path. So I think we must have done something right. And I just can't speak more highly of this industry. And I'm a particular supporter of younger people that are looking to explore the industry. I think in more mature markets, it may not be seen as an industry of choice or might be seen as a part-time job while you're at university going to hospitality. But I think when you can share your own journey combined with the diversity of the ecosystem that we belong in, there is a world of opportunity and possibilities. I mean, goodness, hospitality extends so far beyond just thinking about a normal hotel experience. There's so many different pockets, whether you go down the real estate side, whether you go down the sales and marketing side of things, there's just so many different things you can consider. So yeah, I feel really lucky to be blessed and now have the opportunity to be at the forefront of something new.

Emily: It's exciting. I mean, what a career you've had. Have there been any stumbles? I mean, how do you deal with times when things don't go as planned?

Carolyn: Well, you've just got to realize that you're not always in control of everything. And I think I learned for sure when Aman Resorts changed hands in 2015 that not everything's guaranteed. So whilst I felt like I was with an incredible portfolio, the direction of the organization can change depending on the shareholding structure. But you've got to go through these moments to actually say, okay, there is a bigger picture here. And I think when you've got a perspective on the different sides of the business, things can change. So change is inevitable. But I think going through that and understanding the optics of the industry have given me the resilience to find different ways and different approaches to navigating success.

Emily: Yeah. No, so impressive. And so wonderful to hear about it from you. You've just started this new job. I mean, they do this for the US president. I don't know if they do it for you, but are there goals you've set for yourself in the first hundred days?

Carolyn: Most definitely. Yeah, sure. First and foremost, team, team, team. I'm very much a people-led leader. I care for our team, and I want to instill a sense of culture straight out of the gates. Show up for your team, do what you say you're going to do, and really lead with purpose. So within the first 30 days, I was on a flight to Mykonos to meet with our general manager there, together with our wonderful and capable team in Mykonos. So one thing is obviously to get my head around the current operation, first and foremost, to ensure that our service delivery, our standards and what we're delivering is true to what we're promising. Equally, our stakeholder engagement across internal and external individuals. What I mean by that, we own and operate in Mykonos, whereas in Amaala in Saudi, we have a hotel management agreement. And so the owners there, being Red Sea Global, are an extremely important commercial partner to us. So going and meeting with John Pagano, the CEO of Red Sea Global, meeting and understanding the priorities of our shareholder then enables me to understand how I drive the operation. I spent some time in Riyadh and in the Red Sea understanding that project and the intricacies of that project and how that differs from our operation in Mykonos. But how do we then build the harmony of the guest experience to ensure that you know that you're distinctively in a Nammos? The same that we'll be doing in the Maldives as well. So I love the diversity of leading a commercial vision for the portfolio, leading a development vision for the portfolio, and then building the culture to ensure that we have operational sustainability and success moving forward. So it's a complex business model when you're coming in and taking that vision forward. But I'm really excited to set a clear vision, a flag on the hill. Within 10 years, we'll have 10 to 12 of the world's best properties. And that was done in collaboration with Petros, our chairman and our shareholders, that this is where we're going. We want a market value of a billion dollars in 10 years. And I believe we can achieve that.

Emily: Wow. Amazing. And can you say where else you're looking to develop hotels?

Carolyn: I think more broadly, we'll have a nice complementary mix of properties within Asia, Middle East, Europe and the US. We're chasing high net worth individuals. And so where they like to travel is where we want to be. And so the portfolio will be shaped around that.

Emily: Yeah. No, that sounds amazing. And I mean, as you say, we're here at Virtuoso. You seem quite optimistic about continued growth of the high net worth traveler. Any thoughts on what we might hear this week when we're just meeting up at the beginning of it?

Carolyn: Yeah, most definitely. I have great confidence that that is probably the most resilient end of the market. And so I think luxury is very well placed to drive the future success of our sector, which is why we're backing it in a huge way. So we're entering this pursuit with great confidence. I'm proud to be a dear friend of Matthew Upchurch and to be back working with him and the team of Virtuoso. We have every intention of joining the portfolio in a formal manner over the months ahead and becoming a part of the destination preview program for Saudi Arabia under the Red Sea Global banner and evolving with Virtuoso. So as we grow, we will lean on our relationship and friendship with Virtuoso to build the awareness of Nammos Hotels and Resorts and my existing relationship with many of the travel trade here will be very valuable.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, I wish you a lot of success. It's been so nice to meet you. Is there any final advice you would give any mantra that you live by or something?

Carolyn: Kick the ball high and follow it through. There you go. Just think big and everything's achievable. Just align yourself with really good people, have a vision, know why you're doing what you're doing and enjoy what you're doing. There's nothing worse than thinking, oh God, if you're in a job that you don't like, get out of it and find something that is really aligned with your passion and your sense of purpose and align yourself with people that are like-minded.