How Art Drives Hotel Revenue and Community - Denise Joseph, NINE dot ARTS

Josiah: How can art transform your guest's experience from ordinary to extraordinary? Well, today we're going to be diving into the answer to this question with Denise Joseph, Director of Curatorial at NINE dot ARTS, a national leader in creative placemaking and art consulting. With more than a thousand projects under their belt, Denise and her team have redefined how art can elevate hospitality spaces, create local connections, and boost your bottom line. In this episode, you'll discover how the early integration of art into hotel design can lead to success and how investing in art drives both community engagement and financial returns. Whether you're considering a new build, renovation, or just refreshing your current property, Denise offers valuable insights that could redefine how you think about art in hospitality. Let's get into it. 

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Josiah: How do you describe NINE dot ARTS and your role there?

Denise: NINE dot ARTS is a national art consulting and creative placemaking firm. We've completed over a thousand projects worldwide. and have contributed more than $50 million in revenue to the creative economy. We have a group of 30 specialists here at our firm based in Denver, but we have a remote presence across the nation. And we think about our role in terms of creating art collections for clients in many different ways, from custom art collections that you might see at a hotel to the creation of what we call community art plans, which are formerly known as art master plans and thinking about how art has a role and impact long term within a community and building strategies around that to help realize that role.

Josiah: Amazing. And tell the listeners a little bit more about your role in the company. I find it fascinating.

Denise: So my role at the company is the director of curatorial. And effectively, what that means is all of the curators roll up under me, so I get to help them with their day-to-day project management and look over their curation, what they're doing, and what's going out the door. But I also manage my own set of clients so I'm doing my own curation and really keeping current in terms of you know, what is relevant and what's happening in the moment. And then across the company, I'm helping my sales partners, I'm helping my marketing partners to really help them understand what are the conversations happening, what's relevant, so that they can inform the conversations that are happening with our clients or the marketing materials that are being put out into the world.

Josiah: I'm going to ask a whole bunch of dumb questions because I don't know that much about the art world, but I want to learn and that's why I'm excited to talk with you today. I enjoy great art, but I don't know what goes on behind the scenes to make it happen. So first question is probably going to be kind of dumb to you, but I'm curious about what does a curator do?

Denise: Okay, so a curator or aka an art consultant is responsible for taking in the client's vision and what they want to see happen with their art collection and then matching that with the right artist to make it happen. So we will start every process with a visioning session to really tease out from our clients, you know, what it is that they want the art collection to do. How do we want audiences to feel in the space? What do we want them to take away? So we boil all that up and we create our project roadmap and our art goals for the project. And we start thinking about then who would be the right artist or partnerships. I know we're going to get into the idea of local partnerships. that could help realize this vision. And so we'll actually go out and find the artists. So organic means whether it's Instagram rabbit holes, our own kind of Rolodex of artists that we know, local creative organizations in the city that we're working in, we might tap them for some ideas. But all in all, bringing that back together then in a art collection package that we present to our clients. And we workshop that and kind of make sure it's hitting all the marks, but really going back to that initial vision that they set forth and saying, here's how we believe this artwork is realizing that vision. So we're working directly with the artists or galleries or art spaces to bring our clients the work.

Josiah: Amazing. So I think we're going to use probably the bulk of our conversation talking about kind of the latter part of that, of how you bring this into spaces and kind of what that implementation looks like and the impact of it. But I want to follow up on what you just shared, because it's something I was fascinated by too. It seems like there's so many great artists out there. Not everybody has their work in a gallery or has agent representation. You mentioned Instagram. So it sounds like kind of you're looking far and wide. You don't have to have an agent or be in a gallery necessarily. You're just looking for the best art that meets the vision. that presents an interesting opportunity.

Denise: Am I hearing that right? Exactly. You do not have to have a gallery representation or artist representation in order to participate in the art world or to participate in these commercial projects, which is the bulk of what we're doing. It's all about connection. And so whether that's a social media connection or we have our own platform where we're having artists sign up called ArtCloud, and they can actually share their portfolios with us. And then we can filter out by medium, by the location where they live, you know, whatever there might be working on that's relevant to the project, we can filter that out and find artists that way as well. And that's a free platform that they can sign up on that all of our curators have access to and are using to find artists for their projects. So the idea is giving opportunity to emerging artists, to artists that traditionally have been underrepresented and how can we put them in a position to realize new opportunities and to get their faces and their works out there.

Josiah: It's amazing. I think I hear a lot of people in the hospitality industry talk about wanting to create this local experience. I feel like art is such a powerful tool in doing that, but it takes work. And I think we'll probably get into some of that in our conversation because I'm sure we've all stayed at hotels where the art feels so generic. There's no sense of place. You don't really feel connected to the community and you and your teams are changing that, right? Before we get into the core of that, I wonder if we spend a few moments just talking a little bit about kind of how you personally got into this work because you've had a really interesting career journey, and I'd love for our listeners to have a bit of context on that as well.

Denise: Yes, it is a windy road that I've been on, but one that has ultimately landed me at my dream job. And so my background is actually in advertising and branding. I spent about 15 years in the advertising scene out in Chicago, And really got to engage with clients and think about how to bring visualization of their branding to life through marketing materials, through advertising materials versus art, which is something that has been the biggest transition. And so my passion for this though started many years ago. I enjoyed world travel as a young adult and just my kind of lens that I looked through was expanded and like mind blown about the art that I was seeing, the different environments that I was in, and really the creativity that this sparked inside of me. And so in my role in advertising, I was on the account side, which is essentially you're the liaison between the client and the creative team internally. And I would help bridge the gaps, you know, think about strategy and are we honoring the strategy and the vision for the project through the materials that our team is proposing. At some point about 10 years ago, I decided I wanted art at the forefront of what I was doing every day. And so I actually went back and obtained my master's in contemporary art history from the School of Art Institute in Chicago, and then thought about what were the career paths that now blend my background in client management with my love for the arts. And art consulting and curation is the perfect marriage of those two things. So I started kind of a nationwide hunt for this perfect dream job and found NINE dot ARTS headquartered here in Denver, and the rest is history.

Josiah: Amazing. Well, I'm glad that led us to talk today because I feel like there are a lot of our listeners, a lot of the people in the Hospitality Daily community, that want to provide this great guest experience, which, of course, starts with development, it starts with the art that is in the space. I think we'll probably get into some details of this, but I want to start at a little bit at the high level, talking about the impact. You mentioned, you referenced this a little bit kind of early in the conversation, but I guess I'd love to hear your thoughts on a high level about how art drives both social and financial results, performance, impact in the world of hospitality. What are you seeing there? Sure.

Denise: So The role of art is to enrich a space. And you had a guest on, I wanted to make sure I gave her a shout out, Samantha Hardcastle recently, who talked about the idea of enriched spaces are what create long lasting relationships and connection. And we believe that through the power of the arts, we are also doing that. And even more so when we're able to engage with those underrepresented artists, support DEIBA forward goals within an art collection, that we are not only providing that enriching experience in the space but we're also giving back to the community. And so we think about ways that we're uplifting artists because maybe they haven't gotten that opportunity before and now they're in this public space of a major hotel and they're getting that visibility and it all goes then back into the creative economy of that community and so What ultimately, of course, is supporting maybe ROI, longer stays, or the ability to increase your room rates, you're also giving into this creative economy because of the investment that you made. And that economy is held up by these emerging and local artists that we really strive to put in all of our projects.

Josiah: That's fantastic. And I realized my question was kind of a little bit broad because it was kind of like touching on the two pieces, like the social impact is so important for all the reasons that you referenced, right? It is so important for hotels and hospitality businesses to think of themselves as pillars of their community. There's many benefits and financial benefits that come as a result of that. I've touched on this in many episodes, but I want to talk a little bit about the financial impact as well, because I think, I mean, this isn't going to be foreign to a lot of our listeners because it feels like everything that people are doing is about improving that guest experiences because that creates loyalty. It creates a willingness to return. It makes it more, you know, it increases word of mouth. There's so many benefits for that. I would love to hear. Do you have other thoughts around kind of the impact that you're seeing with your clients on the financial side of making investments here?

Denise: Yes, I would love to speak to the financial impacts of arts in not just the hospitality sector but within all of all of these projects and I want to share a little bit about the state of the art report that we oversee and we host every two years. We run the data, we're doing interviews with hundreds of professionals in the real estate industry to really glean what do you see as the impact of arts on your project? And some of the really amazing stats that they're seeing is that for every dollar spent, they're seeing at least twice the return. So the way that art can have this impact long after the construction trucks have gone away, 70% are also sharing with us that arts and culture is really the most important way that you can effectively create social economic impact. And so this idea that we're hearing from our clients, the excitement and the relevance of art within their art collections and the project as a whole is resounding. And we're hearing that within our state of the art report.

Josiah: Amazing. Now I want to kind of bring this into kind of what this looks like for a project and in preparing for our conversation, we were going back and forth around some of the pitfalls you see. And one of them is that you shared is kind of this notion of treating art as an afterthought. How do they get there and how can our listeners avoid that?

Denise: Yes, art should not be an afterthought because the more planning and forethought that you can give it, the more impactful program that you'll be able to deliver. So we actually encourage our clients to get in touch with us at 60% Schematic Design so that we at least have a vague understanding of like, what is this space all about? And we can start to plan for things like, incredible ceiling suspended sculptures or, hey, we know we want to do an immersive mural on the exterior of that building. We recommend that you use these finishes for the best results. So by engaging us early on in the process, we can get ahead of some of the logistical and tactical things that are really critical to a successful installation down the road. Also, you have to think about the idea that commissioning artwork takes time, and artists have busy schedules, they have other commitments, and we want to ensure that we can get on their schedules and give them a proper amount of time to create meaningful work. And also if you think about the economics that we're in, just the rising cost of materials. So the sooner that we can go under commission contract with artists or we can do the purchasing on behalf of our clients, we're able to lock in those prices and really prevent that price escalation that's happening year over year as we're seeing.

Josiah: That makes a lot of sense. And yes, there's so many moving parts to this. I think for developers, this isn't going to be a surprise that for any other element of the project, you can't just bring something in as an afterthought. You have to think about doing this right. How do you think about this in the context of renovations? And I want to get into how you work potentially with others, but in a renovation lifecycle, is it the same thing as early as possible, I assume?

Denise: As early as possible. But I think we're also in when we think about renovations, we might have a little bit more flexibility because we know how the space has already been used or how what is the circulation path and okay, that's going to still remain an ideal art location. I would love to speak with you about a renovation project that I'm personally working on in Salt Lake City and this is the Union Pacific Depot that is located in downtown Salt Lake City. And so what used to be the train depot people coming and going. they are now converting into a Marriott hotel property. And so a lot of planning and foresight has gone into this project to ensure that the art program is honoring the history of that place in a very authentic way. So thinking about motifs around travel, train history, ideas in exchange that happened because this great railroad connected Salt Lake City out to the West. So we engaged with this client four years ago, and the conversation ebbed and flowed throughout that time, but it really allowed us to ensure that we were honoring the history of the place, that the branding for this project, the project is called Asher Adams in homage to two cartographers that worked in the 1860s and 70s, so we wanted to make sure that you know, their work was acknowledged in the project. And this really allowed us to plan ahead. And so from a renovation standpoint, it's really thinking about the use of that space. You have these extremely tall ceilings and like, okay, how can we manage costs but also do work that's very impactful in those spaces? Is it a series of works? Is it two large portraits? So really thinking about the space as it stands because we're not changing the historic building or structure, we have to work within it. And so the more time and planning, the better that we can do that.

Josiah: That's amazing. That sounds like a really fun project. I'm curious for the projects you work on, is there any engagements that you have where someone's not doing a renovation or it's not a new build and it's an existing property? Do you work at all in those contexts or is it all in the world of development and renovations?

Denise: Absolutely, we work with existing current properties. So it might be something where the developer, the ownership has been in the space a long time and they decide maybe they're doing a branding refresh or they just simply now that we're all back in the office, they want to give the employees a reason to come into the office. So they'll reach out to us and we'll still go through that same process in terms of establishing What is the goal for your collection? And then meeting them with the artists that are going to fulfill that goal. So absolutely, we can work within existing spaces to bring our collections to life.

Josiah: Amazing. I'll link to your website where people can learn more about you and your work. I wonder if we can give our listeners a little bit of advice. Someone's listening to this that says, fantastic. I love art. I see the economic value, the social impact. And then thinking about this as a strategic investment, strategic initiative, right? What would be some advice that you'd have to make sure, coming off of listening to our conversation, that they could do to take this from just kind of something that they're interested in to start to think about kind of bringing into their context?

Denise: Sure. Well, in that state of the art report that I mentioned, the summary of this last round was that developers are seeing that when you think about art and culture and the way that you think about architecture and design, you will have a more successful outcome and impact on the project. So really thinking you know, the idea that if you make that short term investment, it will it will serve you many, many times over. And so thinking about not only that short term investment, but what you're doing to give back to the community. So art is one of those things that people want to talk about. They want to post about they want it. It has that goodwill and that kind of good feeling. There's a lot of earned free earned media that you can obtain because you have a program that's hyper-local and representing artists from that community. You do art activations. You can bring not only the guests that are visiting your hotel into that space, and they're engaging with the artworks, but you can also engage with the community. So it's this idea that there's kind of these soft outcomes that are also happening, but that have benefits even beyond economic and financial ones.

Josiah: I wonder if you could share an activation or some use case you've seen in the hospitality world where maybe someone works with you, they have this incredible art, but then to your point, it's like, okay, how do you get people to make sure that they're really enjoying this? Have you seen some things that have been creative and stood out to you in that regard?

Denise: Yes. So a project that myself and the team curated was called the Clayton Club. And this is down in an area called Cherry Creek, just south of Denver. It opened in May of 2021. And the idea there was to create, and this was a renovation actually. They renovated the 63 room hotel. It remained a boutique hotel, but the experience was really to give back to the community and establish this social club. And I'm not talking about like a social club that's inaccessible. It is a social club for the community, for the artists. So we actually worked with local artists to do commissions in the space. And then they were, you know, as kind of a thank you, and in addition to their compensation for the project, they were given access to this members club. And so the idea is that you're bringing together all kinds of backgrounds and people from just this different kind of mindsets and thoughts to one place where they can engage with each other and have meaningful conversation.

Josiah: That's incredible. And I feel like, you know, the Clayton Club is, I feel like it's become really well known for being such a hot spot. And you look at kind of across, you know, critical acclaim and what people say about it, it's so hot and people are really into it. And I feel like the role of art and creativity in that plays a huge role. It's massive.

Denise: Yeah, it's really massive. And just to kind of continue with that example, I'd love to share some other things that the Clayton Club is doing to support the local artist community. So artists are able to consign their work in that place and sell it if it sells or get the word out that, you know, this is the work that they're doing. Everything's tagged in QR code. Travel and Leisure recognizes one of the top five hotels this past summer. And it's a place that people are visiting. And it's not just out-of-towners, but it's local. So you're, again, giving back to that creative economy and community. One of the things that they did early on to kind of support the art programming was a lot of programming and they have the talks and we're actually speaking with them about doing like Art Buying 101. And so how can the members of the club get more into art buying? But they're also doing, they set up a fund early on called Clayton Contributes. And the idea that there's a 1% surcharge on every transaction that goes into this fund that ultimately is helping to support the cycle of the art program there and get back to the community.

Josiah: It's exciting to hear that because I feel like you work across a lot of different buildings and with many developers in a lot of different contexts. But I think what I love about hospitality is exactly what you shared. There's so many different levers to pull, right? Because at the end of the day, it's all about experience. And that could be the visual experience. It is the programming. It's everything that you've described, right? And hospitality businesses have a really unique perspective, I think, to leverage art and the power of art. to achieve all the benefits that you've shared. I am curious, because you work across so many clients, you've been in this industry and from different perspectives, you've kind of seen what's going on. Where do you see this all going? Where do you see the role of art in hospitality moving in the years ahead?

Denise: Yeah, in the next probably five to ten years, I see a few things happening. This idea that we're pushing the boundaries of your home away from home. So people want the space of their home, but I don't want to stay in my home. I want to stay in my best friend's home whose style and design I really like. So giving them kind of this special treat or surprise that is beyond what they might do or is slightly out of their comfort zone. So I think that design, architecture are pushing boundaries, but I also think that the art program can bring in that, like we're talking about that hyper-local touch, that sense of the community. What is this community all about? Okay, I'm starting to get that. I see this work in my room and I'm spending time with it and I'm engaging with it. We're also seeing a lot of desire for I want what no one else has. And so we're pushing boundaries in terms of materiality, mediums, unexpected ideas. I just completed a project with the United Airlines brand at the Denver airport. And we wanted an iconic sculpture as you come up the stairs to this club. And they said, how can we bridge the urban and kind of some of that grit that Denver has with the amazing art scene that we have here as well? And so we worked with an artist to create this incredible pine cone sculpture made out of hundreds of skateboard decks. And we're able to tie in the brand coloration, but also these themes around urbanity and the amazing Denver art scene, all into this one very unexpected pine cone sculpture that you see at the top of the escalators. So I think where we can deliver that unexpected or surprise and delight moment, whether it's in a really big way or kind of a small discovery moment. People are craving that. And that's what really lasts with you and remains with you after you long after you leave that property. That's the thing you're going to tell your friends about. You won't believe this thing that I saw when I was visiting Denver. And that's what's hopefully going to get them to return and bring their friends to.

Josiah: Yeah, it's all about creating memories. It's all about giving people something to talk about. And I love that. I might edit myself here because I was just kind of thinking about what you're sharing there and about the Clayton Club. And I wonder if you I guess you shared a couple of things that were kind of non-obvious to me, and maybe it's just me because I'm a newbie, but you talked about kind of the consignment. And I guess I'm curious if there's some things that you think are kind of new with the clients that you work with or people in the industry where like, I don't know. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here, but so what I'm hearing is maybe hospitality businesses don't necessarily have to purchase all the art. There could be interesting collaborations like the Clayton Club, if I'm understanding you right, are doing.

Denise: Yeah, I'm happy to expound upon that. So you were asking, you know, is there opportunity for art loans or consignment when working with our clients? Of course, we want to support long term that creative economy. So by outright purchasing the work and building your collection that way, that is our recommendation. Is there opportunity and space for an art location within the hotel where you might have a rotating program? And that is exactly what we did in the Clayton Club. So for the Clayton Club, we worked with the Redline Contemporary Arts Center, and that's a nonprofit located here in Denver. And they actually give opportunity for a two-year artist residency, which is kind of unheard of, and it's fully paid for. This is an amazing program, and we really believe in the work that they're doing to uplift the local artist community. So we set up a partnership between Redline and the Clayton Club for a rotating art loan program. And the idea being that you're, as a guest, seeing the kind of local creative spirit. We're supporting the nonprofit. They were compensated with an art loan. The work has a safe spot, but also if a guest comes and sees and says, I really like that, it's tagged and they can reach out to Redline and get more information and then Redline would put in another work for the longevity of the contract. Yes, there is opportunity for like those rotating programs, but we want to do them really strategically and thinking about how does it support the mission of the property, of that brand, but also the mission of kind of this giving back to the creative economy and community.

Josiah: Amazing. Thanks for sharing that.

Denise: We have a great example about early integration with the Maven Hotel. I don't know if you've been down there.

Josiah: I've heard. I haven't been to it yet. But okay.

Denise: So this project was conceived around the idea of the maker. This used to be the place of Windsor Dairy. So milk production was happening there. And so we wanted to honor the idea of craft of the maker, but in our contemporary time. And so the whole art collection at the Maven Hotel is built around the idea of the maker and the local creative spirit. And so we got in very early, early enough that we were able to commission an artwork with an artist whose name is Andrew Tirado. called The Hand, affectionately known as The Hand, that's the short term name. And so this hangs from the ceiling at the entry of the hotel. It's some 300 pounds of reclaimed wood, and it takes the shape of the hand. So quite literally this idea of the maker personified in this hand, but in a way that is so custom and so craft and so meaningful that it's truly become an icon for the Denver art scene, something that people go to see because it's truly magnificent. In order to make that happen, we got involved early, there were beams in the ceiling that we had to make sure could hold the weight of this we thought about what cabling system is going to make this a safe and integrated sculpture. So really, it was that early integration that allowed for this opportunity. had that been billed out and they brought us in, that ship might have sailed, so to speak. So we got really involved early and there's several examples of that on the project. As you turn the corner around to what's called the dairy block, this was a parking garage and a dark alley that no one wanted to go into and now it's been activated with murals, light works, sound works, they hold Friday art markets. So this idea that by bringing us in early, we're able to bring in many different artists with different kind of takes on this idea of the maker to create a destination and a place that people really want to go see when they come visit Denver.

Josiah: Well, I know where I'm going to stay next time I'm in Denver. That sounds very exciting. I love it, Denise. Where would you point our listeners, people watching this, to learn more about you and your work?

Denise: Great. So we would love for you to visit us at nine.arts.com. And that's N-I-N-E-D-O-T-A-R-T-S dot com. We also have our own podcast that we'd love for you to subscribe to by Martha McGee, our CEO. It's called Dot Dot Dot. And you can find it on any of the channels where you find your podcast. We'd love for you to have a listen.

Josiah: Incredible. It's been great learning from you, Denise. Thanks for taking time to chat. I'll include links in the show notes to all of that. And also, you know, just so where people can learn more, learn more about you and your work. But thanks for taking the time to chat.

Denise: Thank you so much for having me.