The Fundamentals of Service in Luxury Hospitality (From Someone Who Trained The Teams Behind The World's Best Hotels) - Jeff Wielgopolan, Meadowood Napa Valley

Josiah: Would you like to provide world-class hospitality and empower your teams to do the same? If so, you'll love learning from our guest today, Jeff Wielgopolan, who led learning and training for Forbes Travel Guide, where he oversaw the training and development of both wine staff and management at hundreds of the world's best hotels. and today is responsible for creating and maintaining the experience for guests, members, and employees at Meadowood Napa Valley. The only property in Northern California with Forbes travel guides, five-star distinction for hotel and spa, and one of only 11 properties in the entire United States to receive Michelin's prestigious new three-key distinction for excellence. Stay tuned to learn the details behind what it takes to provide world-class hospitality. 

Josiah: Jeff, I saw that you are writing a book and this is fascinating to me. I think the process of writing a book, it sounds interesting and terrifying and a ton of work. I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about the general direction of what you're hoping to communicate in the book.

Jeff: Yeah, I guess a few overarching thoughts on that is that if you ask sort of anyone in the world, where do you go and get the best service? Most likely the answer is going to be at a five star hotel. So what is it that a five star hotel does better than than anyone? But what I also find really unique with working in the luxury segment for the past 25 years is that when you think about a luxury hotel that, you know, the staff are being asked to perform something that they themselves rarely, if ever, get to experience for themselves. that most likely a housekeeper or front desk agent isn't going to pay $1,700 a night for a room when they go on vacation, but then are asked to perform a five-star arrival. What is it? What is luxury service? If you work for a luxury retail store, you could learn about the craftsmanship and read about it. You could touch the product. You could drive a luxury car and learn how it drives and be able to speak confidently to it. But Now, you're asked to perform something that is really vague and changes with every single person that you meet. How do you train people to think like a luxury guest? When I used to work for Forbes Travel Guide, we would work with hotels and restaurants and spas and then all different types of luxury segments. And you have to just break it down really simply to understand because it actually is a pretty simple concept. But you just have to teach people how to speak a particular language. And so once you got it and you're able to speak it and understand it, unfortunately for you, you'll never leave it. that it'll be in your brain for the rest of your life and kind of ruins every other experience that you'll have from this point onward. But once you got it, it's amazing how easy things become and just you and the guests are always on the same page. You and your fellow colleagues are always on the same page. So once again, it's just a specific way of thinking. So You know, I've read a number of books that talk about an overarching concept of something. But if you're a line staff employee, sometimes you don't get the ability to, you know, have thousands of dollars to spend on a guest or you don't have the ability to to change the guest experience because those decisions have been made for you. But there actually are little things that you could do in your day-to-day work life in order to make the experience for your guests and yourself a whole lot easier.

Josiah: I feel like there is so much we get into there and I'm so excited about your book. I know this is a lot of work. I don't know. I've heard there are a lot of work to do, so I don't know this for myself, but it seems like a lot. But I wonder if we could talk just a little bit more about that notion. For me, that's fascinating because running a hotel or resort takes so many people. The situation that you've described is top of mind for me because it's come up in a lot of recent conversations for different people across the hospitality industry where not everybody is accustomed to just living this way as our guests do. So how do you bridge the gap? You talk about language being a key piece of that. Are there other things that you found are helpful for helping new team members who maybe aren't familiar with this world or this way of operating? to help them acclimatize into this sort of culture.

Jeff: Yes, a few examples. First, just the one about language. You know, I think that sometimes when you when you work at sort of a fancy place you're told all of the words that you shouldn't say. And here at Meadowood, we don't focus on that. We actually focus more on the words that you should say. And when I work with the team, I'll give them the example of if, let's say, Josiah, you go out and you would like what's your favorite cocktail cocktail?

Josiah: I like gin and tonic.

Jeff: Perfect. So you come to a really five-star hotel or a five-star hotel, and you order a sit down at the bar, and you order a gin and tonic, and it's served in a red solo cup, and you're going to pay $22 plus tax plus gratuity. So you're looking at, you know, a 20, $30 drink. What would you think?

Josiah: That would be disappointing. Right.

Jeff: So there's nothing wrong with a red Solo cup. In fact, probably some of our happiest memories actually revolve around holding one, so there's nothing wrong with it. But there's a scale of service ware that you would start with a disposable plastic cup, and then a reusable plastic cup, and then maybe an acrylic plastic cup, and then a durable glass, and then a thin-thinned glass, and then maybe a cut crystal rocks glass. So your $22 gin and tonic is now served in a beautifully etched rocks glass. What do you think?

Josiah: different, different, whole different experience.

Jeff: It's right there, right? Yeah. That it's funny, the contents of the glass didn't change. So the meaning didn't change, just the presentation did. And so you can think about that scale of serviceware. And you could also think about that scale and the words that you use that we could greet a guest by saying sup, yo, hey, hi, hello, or good morning, good evening, good afternoon. That, you know, when we, when we talk about that, if you say, Hey, to a guest, there's nothing wrong with it. The intent and the content is still there. But it's not, it's not the highest rung on that ladder. So can we operate in that space where we just use our brains to think of what's the, what's the best way to say something? And so if we operate all the way up here, that means that our, our intent is always heartfelt, but that we're using sort of the best approach in terms of our language. And so it allows the team to not be so scared and not be so inhibited by, Oh, what happens if I say, yeah. It's okay. It's okay. If you say every now and then, but what we want you to focus on is just your naturalness with the guest. And so that's one very easy way that I think sometimes the team, the team gets that. Oh yeah. If I was going to spend X amount of dollars, I would want something very high quality. So I should be at that same level. And this is probably actually the observation that the majority of our guests really do comment on. And it's something so simple and amazingly powerful is, you know, we have a phrase at here at Betterwood called beat the greet. And the staff are the very first to provide a wave, a hello, a good morning. We have internal competitions that if I open the door, who's the first person to say it? Is it the front desk agent or is it me? That there is a lot of power in that greeting. And the way that I explain it to the staff, and this is a little bit twofold, is that if you go into a restaurant or a bar or a business that you go to all the time. And the moment you walk in, someone says, you know, oh, good morning or hello again. How does it make you feel? So, Josiah, how does it make you feel?

Josiah: It makes me feel welcomed. It makes me feel happy, known. Right.

Jeff: So in order to in order to make you feel happy and to make you feel known, it took a person that said that has the power and the ability to do that in one second. All it took was for one person to say, hello, or welcome back, or good morning. And that made you feel happy. In one second, we were able to do that. So imagine if you started doing that all over property and everyone gets a greeting. Now you're just creating a positivity towards everybody. And we know we use that same concept with our managers and our leaders that like lead by positivity. And so if you see someone do something really exceptional or great, just say Josiah, great job. Or Josiah, that was perfect. Or Josiah, your guest name usage, spot on. That it only may have taken you a couple of seconds, but how do you think that employee is going to stand for the rest of the day? And how do you think they're going to feel for the rest of the day? by you acknowledging something like very small, but very impactful that they did. And once again, it only takes a couple of seconds. I think that what I learned in my time in traveling at all of these luxury hotels and luxury properties is that a very good majority of them. But to do, and yes, like you're always taught like a feedback sandwich and all that stuff, but by leading by the positivity, it's just, you're constantly reinforcing positive behavior and what an amazing way to work.

Josiah: What an amazing way to work. I appreciate you highlighting this because I was talking to some general managers recently that were talking about this very challenge that you mentioned of how do you take people who have not experienced this before into a world where you're providing this now. There are probably multiple elements to it, but the power of words. You talk about one word, one greeting. changing everything. That's insane. I think like we might know it intellectually, but even just hearing you, I'm reminded by the power of that, I think professionally, but also in our personal lives to be candid. Like I think there's, we're just so powerful.

Jeff: For sure. So I'll give one more example. And this is the one that on property, we talk about how it will ruin your life is that we think about being anticipatory. And quite often in, in hospitality, we're told to anticipate the guest needs, think ahead. And I'll often share with the team of that's like saying like, be nice. Everyone thinks they're nice, but no one knows what it means, right? In a very philosophical way. But no one thinks they're not anticipatory. You just think that you are. So an example that I'll give to the team is, if you were to take a test in school, what's an easier test to take? Fill in the blank or a multiple choice? And almost everyone answers a multiple choice. And it's like, well, why? It's because the answer is there. And it's like, well, why do we ask fill-in-the-blank questions to the guest? So if you were, if you're, if you're checking into Meadowood for the very first time, and I ask you, you know, where would you like me to place your luggage? You don't know the answer. So you're just going to kind of like aimlessly look around the room and be like, I don't know. It's right there. What if I told you, would you care for me to place your luggage on a luggage rack at the foot of the bed or inside of the closet? What now you heard was A or B. If you go to the bar and you ask, can I get a gin and tonic? And I ask you, what kind of gin would you like? What question's probably coming right back at me. Well, what kind of gin do you have? Why wouldn't I just say the things that I have? But also, what if I told you, you know, along with Bombay and Hendricks and Tangeray, we also have an amazingly local image in called St. George, which is made about 50 miles from where you sit. And it's beautiful with this particular type of tonic. As a guest, you can't order something that you don't know exists. So now maybe I provided you with a product and a level of service. And now maybe every time you look at a bottle of St. George gin, you'll know exactly that you had it the first time here at Meadowood. So it's sort of just a way of thinking where you're just providing the answers to your own questions. And now you're going to go to a diner and order a sandwich and your server is going to look at you and say, and what would you like as your side? And you're going to pause and you're going to think of this moment. Because why won't you tell me what the sides are? So it's just, once again, it's like a way of thinking where you're just able to get ahead of the guest. And there is this little magic that's created and the guest, the experience is so easy for them and effortless and almost like they don't know why. And I think that that's the true magic of it.

Josiah: I love that example because there's both taking this thing that's very ambiguous and where do I put my luggage into specific options. It kind of reduces decision fatigue there. But I like the bar example too, because I'm a Hendrick's guy and I'm always going to get the Hendrick's gin and tonic, right? But I feel like great hospitality is also introducing guests to things that they didn't know that they And so I think having presenting, you're simplifying, but you're also adding something new to consider to the mix. And I understand this is actually part of a bigger philosophy that you have. I think you call it something like the plus one sort of approach, where it's the request or the thing that is being discussed, and then something else. But I'm doing a terrible job of describing this. How would you describe it?

Jeff: So it's it's almost the same concept as being anticipatory but in sort of a plus one world you just answer a question you say one more thing and almost always that one extra thing is going to be anticipatory it's going to have one more element to it so An example of this sometimes in our, in our own work life is, you know, the golden rule of, of improv is like, yes. And that you'll agree to something and you'll contribute. So if you and I are doing a sketch and you ask me like, Hey, Jeff, did you go to that morning meeting? And I look at you and say, Oh, Josiah. No, I didn't. our skit ends immediately. If I say yes and then I say something more, it's like now there's a little bit of a repartee, right? So if you start to think about that in your own personal life or professional life and say yes, and then just say one more thing, it's amazing that you'll probably answer the next question that someone's about to ask. And just like we shouldn't say in hospitality, maybe the golden rule is no, but, and if you're going to decline a request, well then what else do you have? And so we can teach that, that philosophy of plus one. So if you ask me, I would Jeff, do you have a fitness center here? And I respond, yes, we do. There's going to be this really awkward pause where you might think, like, is it a secret? Why, why are you telling me where it is? You know, I say, Mr. Mackenzie, yes, we do. Here is where it's located. Here are the hours of operation. Just to let you know, there's a fitness calendar that's located inside of your folder on your desk. Now I may have thought three things for you and the exact, just your, the interaction just once again, just becomes so effortless.

Josiah: So Jeff, I'm going to ask you a very dumb question, but I want to frame up the rest of our conversation. And that is, why does this all matter, right? Is it enough to just have a beautiful property and be friendly? Why should hospitality providers think about the details in this sort of way, whether it's the language we use or their thought towards training their teams? Why does this matter?

Jeff: Well, I think that people travel now for one inexperience and I'll be pretty blunt and say that, yes, we have exceptional beds here and we have exceptional amenities and we have exceptional food and beverage programs and all of those things. And so do a lot of other, so do all the other hotels in our competitive set. Like they all have those same things and there's still nothing more comfortable in the entire world than your own bed at home. So we have to compete with that. Right. So there's lots of places to sleep and there's lots of places to eat. But I think that once a hotel starts to just turn a little bit and it's no longer just a place in which you sleep, but it's a place in which you experience that that comes down to the people and for people to be able to, or for our guests to come in and be recognized by name for a property like Meadowood, where some of our staff members have watched kids grow up and are now having their own children of their own. And there is, there's, I don't know, like there's a bondness to the property. And so remembering all of those things and just making people feel comfortable You know, there's, there's lots of examples of what, what quote unquote luxury means. And I've always been the biggest proponent that, you know, luxury is the ability to not have to think. that that luxury in terms of a product is in the eye of the beholder of what I may find luxurious may be very different than someone who is worth a lot more, right? Like the product is very vague, but if we can get you on property and just do all of the thinking for you and that your only job really is to just experience I think that there's nothing better and maybe that's where as a hospitality industry, we do things better than anyone. I'll give maybe an example for you of in my former career, I actually did a speaking engagement to a medical practice and it was sort of a private medical concierge. And one of the doctors was giving me a bit of a hard time of, why is someone working in hotels coming and teaching 50 doctors? Anything, really. And so I had asked what she did, and she was an oncologist that specialized in women's health. And I had said, okay, so I guess I think of being at a hotel a number of years ago where, and this is such an over the top experience, but I promise it has a really good ending, but that the, they had an outdoor pool and I was there in December and there's a million stars in the sky and the pool is open, I think until like nine or 10. And when you get into the pool, they had pool butlers and parkas. and said that when you would like to get out of the pool, just wave us down. And so when I waved the gentleman down, they brought over a pair of sandals and a towel and then wrapped me in a heated peppermint-scented robe and escorted me to this little warming hut where there were s'mores and hot chocolate to walk literally the 40 feet to the hotel room door. And I thought, okay, this is crazy. And so over the top. But then I also thought, all right, well, what if one of your patients is getting a mammogram? She's probably beyond nervous and so frightened and scared and tense and stressed. What is she wearing? Is she wearing a paper robe? Is she wearing a cotton robe? Is that robe warmed? Is that robe lavender scented so there's some aromatherapy? that as a doctor, you may be just looking at the results of the mammogram, but how did you actually make your patient feel? And from a hospitality standpoint, that's where, when I say like a five-star hotel does it better than anyone, it's a great example of like, we can immediately think about what we did for our guest. And maybe that actual, that example can be translated into how you treat your patients.

Josiah: I love the applicability of this, right? Within the hospitality industry and beyond, as you just illustrated. And I guess to just reinforce this point on a personal level, it feels that operating this way is meaningful to many people and maybe to everyone, it could be. And before we started recording, you had shared the story of speaking with a bellman at the St. Regis Monarch Beach, which is now closed. But it was an interaction, I think, that was very formative in kind of, I guess, the opportunity of providing this and the meaning that operating at this highest level enables. I wonder if you could share that with our listeners.

Jeff: Yes, it's a story that I will never forget. I could still picture exactly where I was standing on the front drive when this took place, but I was waiting for our training to start, and I was just talking to one of the bellmen who just happened to be there. And we were talking about working there, and he had mentioned that He is moving from full-time to part-time because he's going back to school. And I asked what are you studying? And he said, marketing. And I had asked him, well, why out of all the places to work, why did you choose here? And his response is once again, the thing I'll never forget is that he had said that he wanted to work at a five-star hotel. So that way for the rest of his life, he could say he was a five-star employee, that he understood how to operate at this level, how to perform, how to be professional. but that he would also surround himself with CEOs and CFOs and heads of state and politicians and movie stars. So if he was to go into a pitch meeting, he'd be perfectly comfortable speaking to people because he's already done it for so long. And I remember standing on that front drive thinking, we're all going to be working for you one day. Like if you think like that, when you're 20, 21 years old, I can only imagine where you're going to take your career. But he was right. And it was so enlightening to hear that of, oh yeah, this isn't, if you think about it, it's not just a job, all of the other ancillary skills that you're learning throughout your time that you could take and apply to any industry from that point on.

Josiah: incredible career opportunities that opens up the skill development. And I think the other point or the other element of that example is just the feeling of operating at a high level. And I think this is what's been interesting to observe in luxury. Hospitality, of course, is great to experience as a guest. But in terms of providing it, I think this is fascinating me more and more of just what is hospitality at the highest level look like? And because I feel like regardless of where someone may be working today, Maybe it inspires them to incorporate some elements of this into whatever context they are, or maybe you have the chance to work in an environment like this where you can live out this at the highest level. It's exciting.

Jeff: Yes, absolutely. And the moment you learn how to talk to people, well, once again, you could take that skill where out of here to speak to another person, and it's pretty tough to work now without doing that. Maybe in the future, it'll be a little different, but who knows?

Josiah: You had a really interesting story that you shared where, this was in an earlier role in your career, but there's a moment where it underscored why attention to detail is so important. Would you mind sharing that story?

Jeff: Yes, it is a very humbling one for me, but I was a young trainer with Forbes Travel Guide and working with all of these iconic, amazing hotels. And I had just finished my day training at the Four Seasons property in Boston. And to conclude our day, we had a manager wrap up where we had about 30 leaders from the property all sitting in the banquet room. And I plugged in my laptop and put my presentation up on the screen. You know, it had a hotel's name and a picture of their iconic lobby. And I remember just before I was about to start, Bill Taylor, the general manager of the property at that time, who was sitting all the way in the back, raised his hand and said, you know, before you go and you tell us all the things that we did wrong, I would think that you would get our property name right. and my heart just sank and I'm sure all the blood left my face and I turned around and my screen says Four Seasons Boston and there's a picture of the lobby and I'm staring at it and he can tell I don't get why what's wrong and he had said that you know our name isn't Four Seasons Boston our name is Four Seasons Hotel Boston And it was obviously a pretty humbling moment to stand there in front of 30 people and see such a small detail. It taught me a remarkably valuable lesson of that. that at this level and at this commitment of a property that you pay attention to everything. And from that point on, a Four Seasons property was either a hotel or a resort. Mandarin Oriental has a comma after Oriental and before the city or place name. That Meadowood-Napa Valley is not Meadowood. It's Meadowood-Napa Valley when we are formally writing about it. But, you know, that that fastidious attention to detail, you know, now can be taken through anything. I can't tell you how many resumes I get that talk about someone's, you know, eye for detail. And then my name is misspelled. That's like, Oh, okay. Maybe that should be something that you, that you would check. Right. But you can take that, that specific attention to detail and now put it into everyone's mindset. That may be when the housekeeper is organizing your amenities, they put the toothpaste next to the toothbrush. And maybe as a next step, as a little plus one, maybe they see that you're almost done with your toothpaste and just put a new container, new vial of toothpaste directly right next to it. If we're going to place a wine glass down, the watermark should be at six o'clock. that there's an intent in a way that you do things. And when we talk about that, when we are onboarding our new employees, we'll show pictures of the housekeeping setup or a table from the banquet team. And I'll always ask, what do you see? And you can see the pride that people have in their job. You can physically see it. And so that attention to detail is something that has never left me. And you can better believe every time I put together a PowerPoint, I always think I'm presenting it to Mr. Taylor.

Josiah: I appreciate sharing that story. Do you feel like anything that you've learned in the business of hospitality has been applicable outside of work?

Jeff: Yes, Josiah, absolutely. We talk about how to show a genuine interest in the guest. And I'll ask often, how do we do this? And nine times out of 10, someone will say, oh, we ask a question. We ask, how are you enjoying your stay? We ask, You know, how are you enjoying your meal? Is there anything else I may get for you? How was your hike? I will say no, that you, you just asked a question. You didn't show a genuine interest yet. The genuine interest isn't asking the question. It's proving you heard the response. That if I ask you, Oh, Mr. McKenzie, how did you enjoy your stay with us? And you say, Oh, it was amazing. Thank you so much. And I reply by saying, well, here's a copy of your folio. If you could just make sure your charges listed here are correct. I asked you a question and didn't listen to the answer. I just checked a box, right? And quite often, sometimes in our personal lives, we may ask a question and we just aren't even listening to the answer. And so once again, just taking the time either for yourself or with your significant other or with your friends or your family, just prove that you listened. Don't have your phone in your hand by asking an important question that you want to be invested in. Take a few moments and truly listen and engage. And so that's a little life lesson that we could all take with us.

Josiah outro: If you like this, make sure you're subscribed to this podcast because tomorrow we're going to bring Jeff back to talk more specifically about the experience at Meadowood Napa Valley that earned Michelin's three key distinction for exceptional hospitality.