How to Get Media Coverage That Builds Your Hospitality Brand & Career [Live Event Replay]

Josiah: Would you like to accelerate your career and reach the goals that you have for your business? Well, your ability to earn media coverage can make all the difference. And today I'm thrilled to share a replay of a LinkedIn live event I hosted with my friends at Hertelier. In this session, I'm joined by two of Hospitality's top media pros, Emily Kanders Goldfisher and Nancy Mendelson, to reveal the secrets of earning media coverage that elevates your brand and transforms your opportunities. Keep listening to learn why media coverage is a game changer for your career and business growth, what journalists are really looking for and how to become their go-to expert, tips for crafting pitches that cut through the noise and land meaningful coverage, and expert advice to ensure your interviews leave a lasting impression. If you're ready to step into the spotlight and share your message with the world, this session is packed with actionable insights to help you get there. So let's dive into it.

[intro]

Josiah: All right, everybody. Welcome to our special event, How to Get Media Coverage that Builds Your Hospitality Brand and Your Career. My name is Josiah Mackenzie. Thank you for joining this special event. I've been really excited speaking with our panelists in preparation for this. This is a Hospitality Daily / hertelier collaboration, and I'm really excited to give you a behind-the-scenes look into what it takes to earn media coverage that accelerates your career and builds your company in the process. I'm joined today by two incredible panelists, Emily Kanders Goldfisher, the founder and editor-in-chief of Hertelier, as well as Nancy Mendelson, co-founder and columnist at Hertelier. I'm going to hand it over to you, Nancy, first, and we'd love to hear your take. Good morning, good afternoon, and tell our listeners a little bit about what you're excited about this event and sharing with our listeners today.

Nancy:
Well, I'm excited about it, first of all, to be working with you, because I'm a big fan, and also to be talking with Emily, even though we talk every day, we infrequently do things together, so, you know, on camera, so this is exciting, and just to be able to share our body of experience to maybe help put people at ease, make people a little more confident, and Really, I mean, now I know men have always shown up, but now women are showing up more. And basically, now that we're here and showing up, how to be the best you can be.

Josiah:
Well, Nancy, I'm going to ask you this, and then Emily, I'm going to pass it over to you afterward. But I want our listeners to get a little bit of a sense of where we're coming from and what is shaping our perspective as we get into today's content. I wonder if you could share a little bit about your background, your career to date, and your experience in media.

Nancy:
Is there time? Well, I'm going to try to keep it brief because I've been around for a while and basically I've done most things communication. I've worked in broadcasting, advertising, publishing, marketing. I am traditionally and more comfortable behind the scenes as an interviewer, as a moderator, as a producer, as a director. So for me, you know, talking about showing up, I mean, this is, I am not without nerves here. So it's a learning experience for me as well. And I do, now I have my own business and work with Emily, but I do a lot of marketing and branding and media coaching and ghostwriting. And I have an extensive toolkit based on a lot of experience. So that's my story.

Josiah:
Amazing. Well, I love that we're doing this. We're doing this live. I feel like no matter how much experience we have, there's always those jitters before you walk on stage or before you hit the go live button, but it's exciting. There's so much potential here. Emily, I want to pass it over to you. Tell our listeners a little bit about kind of what you're excited about this event for, and I'd love to hear a little bit about your background.

Emily:
Well, thank you, Josiah. Thanks for having us today. We are so excited to be part of this first collaboration with Hospitality Daily doing a LinkedIn Live. Pardon me, I am just getting over a bit of a cold, but and such a thrill for me to be here with Nancy, who, you know, is my partner and my mentor, and she has so much wisdom to share. So I'm excited that the rest of the world and LinkedIn Live is going to experience what I get to enjoy on a daily basis. My background is, I've actually been on both sides of the fence. I started my career in PR, cut my teeth at an agency, on the agency side where I represented hotels and restaurants and destinations and cruise lines. And kind of towards the end of my time at the agency, I was working for Hyatt Resorts. and help them launch, which was very innovative at the time, a program for families, a program for spas. And that was, you know, a really cool thing that was very exciting at that time, which of course is very commonplace today. And then I moved over to work in-house with Lowe's Hotels. doing similar kind of work and at that time actually we launched the first Lowe's Pets, the first hotel program for pets. We did a lot of fun programs and I had the opportunity to work with Jonathan Tisch who was then the CEO of Lowe's Hotels who was a master in PR and working with the press and I'm excited to share some of the insights that I learned but literally working for him was a master class in publicity.

Josiah:
Well, I'm delighted to have you both on this call today, and I think we're going to have a lot of fun diving into different elements of the media. Just to briefly share a little context on myself with our listeners, if we haven't met yet, I am the founder and host of Hospitality Daily. which is a daily podcast. And so I'm very immersed in that side of the media world today. I've spent most of my career as a marketing leader for different technology companies that have been serving the hospitality industry, serving tens of thousands of hotels around the globe. And the path I took in helping build those companies was very much driven by engaging media, thinking about what stories are interesting and relevant and timely, and how can we put together things that not only get the media's attention, but also help everybody in the industry. And so it's been a great learning experience to think about what is newsworthy and what is valuable. And so we'll get into kind of the mechanics of that.

Emily:
I forgot to mention that I actually spent the last decade working as a journalist and then started hertelier, which is why we're here today. But yeah, I've now since working at Lowe's, like you, have been working as a journalist now and learning about what makes a story and what work gets chosen. So excited about all that, and I can't believe I forgot

Josiah:
Well, I appreciate you sharing. There's a lot of, you've seen the industry from so many different angles and we'll get into that. I guess I, you know, I think I want to get into talking a little bit about why media coverage matters. It might seem obvious for our listeners, maybe it doesn't, but it would be good to dig into this a little bit. Nancy, I'd love to pass it over to you first to speak about this. Why does media coverage matter?

Nancy:
Well, it matters because in a tremendously competitive landscape with people vying for attention and guests and, you know, how are you going to get out there? How are you going to distinguish yourself? What makes you different? And, you know, why should people come stay at your hotel? Why should people get your tech, you know, have your tech, use your tech product? Why? I mean, and unless they, it's a great way now for people to get to know you. By being out there, you get a sense of who you're dealing with, whereas back in the day, you didn't. And so it's vital. It's vital for your brand, and it's vital for your personal brand, and it's vital for your personal growth.

Josiah:
I love that. It all comes back to the why, right? You know, that's going to drive everything. Emily, I'd love to get your take on this. Why does media matter?

Emily:
It's just, we're consuming so much today, right? Like you're on your phone, we're on the computer, we're on LinkedIn. And it's just, there is this opportunity to shape what people think about you. And I feel that it's important just in terms of like you didn't maybe have to think about this 5, 10, 20 years ago because media wasn't so much part of the fabric of our lives as it is today because everyone's basically got their own ability to be broadcasting in their pocket with their phone. So it is very important and it is something that as we've worked on her teller and been involved with women and hospitality and speaking to them, it's something that women actually struggle with. So that's why we're excited to be here sharing this.

Josiah:
Well, I think what you mentioned there is interesting to me. So we're consuming media in different formats, different ways. It's probably fair to say that it's also kind of democratized a little bit too, to your point, right? Where we have more tools than ever to share our story, right? Which presents opportunities.

Emily:
Look at us right now. I mean, you've done this years ago, right? Well, maybe more like 10, but...

Josiah:
It's an amazing time to be building a career, building a company because of these new tools. I mean, I think from my perspective, it's very personal. I think kind of having the chance to talk a little bit about this and show people behind the scenes on how to get media coverage is personal for me, because I was thinking about this before we were going live here. And if I rewind the clock, there was a moment where I was living at my parents' house in rural Michigan and I was completely disconnected from opportunities for networking that might be available in other contexts, right? If you're living in a city, there's often meetups and that kind of thing. I was a six hour drive away from anything. And I was, you know, I got into kind of the world of online publishing and started blogging. This was kind of the early days of social media. And in doing that, I found I was able to build relationships. I was able to articulate thoughts. I was able to share ideas and connect with other like-minded people. And what I found is that led to speaking opportunities. We're going to get into different dimensions of coverage, but one thing leads to another. And so it almost opens up the serendipity of things that you weren't really expecting. And out of the blue, I remember it very clearly. It was a summer day. I got an email from an event organizer in Italy. I had never done any sort of public speaking before, and it was nine months away. And I was excited and terrified to get that email. But I joined Toastmasters and started practicing and eventually ended up giving that keynote speech, which led to career opportunities. There was no other reason I should have had the chance to do. So I feel like it democratizes opportunity access, can be really effective accelerant for careers and for businesses and networks, right? Can I jump in for a second?

Nancy:
Yes, Nancy. What you're saying, and what's great, is that you had an interest, and you had something to say, and being interested makes all the difference, and so you pursued it, and that's where it starts. It starts with you, and what you want to do, and look at you. No? Yay.

Josiah:
It's a great point, right, of just being kind of, you have to be, you have to have interest in this, right? And maybe if I'm reading between the lines, Nancy, it almost seems that you have to be interested in something bigger than just getting the media coverage, right? You want something.

Nancy:
Absolutely. You're being intentional. What's your intent? You know, what's your intent? What do you want for people? You know, and what do you want for yourself? You know, it's a two-way street, you know, so.

Josiah:
Emily, I'm curious if you've seen that in your work as well. I imagine you get pitched all the time from people who want coverage, but do you notice a difference between people that have that intent, as Nancy said, to share something bigger?

Emily:
Yeah. It's just a great segue into how do we figure out who to cover and what are the stories You're right, and I know you do this for Hospitality Daily, is like, you get pitched all the time with different stories, and it's like, what is it that resonates? But there is a lot about the personality of the person. And I think it's like, also, I mean, you know, is it like, do you have a hot take on something? Is it a different spin? You know, I think that's the kind of stuff people, that really cuts through the clutter. And it's just, you know, having that, that opinion on something and also being willing to speak about it.

Josiah:
Yeah, I'd love to dig into that a little bit more, Emily. You mentioned kind of, you know, your process for finding stories. This session is going to be a deep dive. We're going to get into all the mechanics of, you know, we talked a little bit about why it matters to get media coverage, some of the opportunities it presents. We're going to spend the bulk of this conversation today getting into the details of how this works, right? So I'm going to pass it over to you, Emily, in a moment. And I would love for people to get a sense. You're running one of the hottest media brands in hospitality today. People look to hertelier for advice, for inspiration, for insight. And so I want people to hear behind the scenes, but just a reminder for our audience, drop questions into the chat here. I have another laptop here that I'm monitoring for questions coming up. And so as we get into this, we'd love to hear from you. But Emily, tell us our listeners a little bit about what it looks like, what your process is for finding stories and how you decide what to cover.

Emily:
I mean, you know, there's really a couple ways. One is if you have hard news. So that's kind of the most straightforward one. But most of the reason why people who would be tuning in today is they don't necessarily have hard news. Like they maybe want to, you know, build their personal brand out or maybe they want to be considered a subject matter expert. So I would say in that case, it's like, and I know that you do this as well in hospitality, but like, what is it that you're super passionate about? Think about, you know, organize your thoughts and then look at the publications that you want to be in and really understand the kinds of things that they write about and sort of work backwards from there. It's like, how do you marry those two things? really is like, you know, what is it that they cover? And then how could you work in your expertise? I would say that's kind of the starting point. I mean, Nance, if you want to jump in on that.

Nancy:
Well, you're the expert when it comes to getting media coverage. I'm sort of the expert when it comes to, okay, now you've got it. How do you do it? You know, and what's the best way for you to deliver it? So, I mean, you are, as a journalist, you come at this from a different perspective than I do, which is what makes this partnership so awesome. And, you know, I'm going to turn it back to you because we're talking about how to get it and, you know, how to get the coverage.

Emily:
Yeah, it's just like, you know, thinking of trends, things that are interesting. You know, what makes something interesting? You know, what's a common problem that people are facing? I mean, I think of a story that I talk about a lot from her teller, which was a director of housekeeping, Lisa Williams, who started using an app called Indeed Flex to basically help her get more housekeepers when labor was really tight right after the pandemic. So, you know, why did this, why was this an interesting story? Why do I still talk about it today? Because she did something innovative. She embraced technology. I mean, those are the kinds of things I think, and I mean, Josiah, you've covered a lot of innovation, I think, in terms of hotel operations.

Josiah:
Yeah, I'd love to get into that. But just to clarify, Emily, you mentioned kind of hard news being an interesting angle. What do you mean by hard news?

Emily:
Well, like a hotel opening or, you know, a new program. Those would be, you know, in the hotel space, hard news, the launch of a new product or service. Certainly any time a hotel opens up would be a big thing. Or like you've adopted a new technology. Something that's broad-based enough, though, that would be, you know, not just interested to, let's say, your ownership or whoever stays at your hotel.

Josiah:
Yeah, no, that's a great point. I, yeah, so I'll kind of pick up on what you were saying around, you know, hotel operations and topics. And I think this might be a good segue into getting into, you know, how to form an effective pitch, right? And you both have touched on this, but really getting a sense of what is this publication or what does this journalist think about covering? Because I think to your point of hard news, for many publications that is very interesting and will be covered. For what I do at Hospitality Daily, it's a little bit different. I actually almost never will cover an opening for it. It's all about the mission that I have at Hospitality Daily, which is inspiring people to become better in the work that they do. So a hotel opening doesn't help people with that, and I'm not going to cover it for that reason. I think, though, the bigger point that you're making before that around this sort of timeliness, the housekeeping example, I guess what was going through my mind is this sense of, you know, why this? Why now? Why are you the person to talk about this topic? Right. So whether it's housekeeping or staffing or operational efficiency, you know, I know both of our publications covered that on different angles, but I I think that's that sort of relevance to the person, to their unique perspective. Emily mentioned kind of hot takes. That stands out to me because I want to hear something perspective, right? I want to hear a different perspective. If you just say that hospitality is about relationships or you have to delight your guests, that's not going to add to the conversation. So I'd love to hear you share a little bit more about hot takes or kind of like the value of that or Nancy as well. I'd love actually both of your thoughts on that.

Emily:
Nance, you want to go with him? I mean, yeah, just like you said, it's like contrarian thinking or something that, you know, would stand out. I mean, yeah, and it is interesting to your point, like I was speaking generally, you know, news, like hard news is one way to get covered. um but certainly and as we think about you know people as subjects it's like yeah i mean it's what is your opinion on a certain thing and and why do you have the expertise i mean maybe you know you've been running a certain kind of hotel in an interesting location or you know, facing a certain challenge that other people can relate to. You know, a lot of the stuff we do is obviously is also very personality driven. So it's just kind of also about the journey. I mean, even as simple as like a day in the life can be quite interesting if the, you know, in the light, you know, anybody's life actually can be interesting, I find. But, you know, you have to be interested as well.

Nancy:
That's really critical. I mean, it's critical when you're pitching, and it's also critical when you're speaking and when you're interviewing. And if you're not interested, you ain't gonna be interesting. I mean, that's just the way it sits. It's just that simple. And when we do the profiles, when we profile people, people are interested in people's journeys. I mean, both of our missions are similar. which is to inspire and educate and, you know, through other people's experience, you know, you can do that. And if you're not out there, you know, if you don't show up and put yourself out there, who's going to know? I mean, you're putting yourself out there for yourself as well, but you're going to have an impact on somebody. Something you say is going to resonate. Something you say is going to fire somebody up. It's like, wow, she could do that. I could do that. And, you know, those are the kinds of things that, you know, when your mission is to do that, you look for those ways and opportunities to tell that story and to get people to tell their story. So showing up is key. I mean, you know, it's like what they say about the lottery. You've got to get in it to win it. But that's pretty much the truth. You know, it's

Josiah:
Yeah, I feel like there's a bigger opportunity than ever before. I'm thinking back to what you mentioned, Emily, at the start of our conversation around there's so many more media outlets, which presents opportunity, right? And I think just even as we've been discussing now, there are so many niche media outlets that focus on a different angle of stories, right? And there's a book that was very formative in how I think about media coverage that was published a number of years ago called Trust Me, I'm Lying by Ryan Holiday. interesting on many levels, and you might love or hate elements of it, but there's a piece in there about how media coverage tends to snowball, or it can, right? And so rather than thinking of getting into whatever top-tier media as you kind of see it, think about, how do I get practice? How do I get started somewhere? And I'm just thinking out loud about just the part of the hospitality media ecosystem that I operate in, in the world of podcasts, where there's so many incredible podcasts out there, right? There's No Vacancy with Glenn Hausman, which tends to be a little more kind of brand focused. on the business and the development side of hospitality. There's the Modern Hotelier, which tends to focus more on technology. There's a new podcast called Sweet Success that gets more into people's stories. I tend to focus more on, you know, here are things that you need today to show hospitality in a professional context. And so I think, you know, thinking about what you both said there of how do you connect kind of your unique perspective or story into one of these many media outlets can be an incredible starting point, I think.

Emily:
Yeah, no, and I agree with you that things snowballs like you can get, you know, you could be on Hospitality Daily or you could be in Hotelier and then it lands you on Hospitality Daily. And then from there. you know, maybe you get into a more, you know, consumer oriented or general business publication. So I think journalists do look for that. I mean, everybody is Googling, they're looking on LinkedIn to see what people have done, where you've, you know, where you've been outspoken, where you've been covered, that definitely things do tend to snowball. And, you know, media inspires media that I think is still the same. Sure.

Josiah:
Nancy, in our preparation for this, you were sharing a little bit about the importance of writing and sharing, and you touched on some elements of that. But I wonder if you could expand a bit on that notion of, I guess, if media tends to snowball, what have you seen or observed with regards to writing and sharing and just getting more ideas out there?

Nancy:
Well, it's getting ideas out there and I can only speak to me personally. I do it first and foremost through writing. I don't seek out speaking opportunities. It's not my comfort zone. I seek out opportunities where I can help people speak better. You know, that's a cop out. And so I have been through writing. People have read what I've written and I've been invited to speak on a number of podcasts, which was not my intention when it happened. It's like, you know, getting those calls. It's like, well, you know, we'd really like you to talk about this article that you written. I was like, why? You know, I said, that's interesting. What about this article resonates for you, and what do you want your audience to come away with? And so, I mean, I've gotten opportunities that way just randomly through writing for Hertilia, largely through my columns. And so, you know, it's interesting. you can meet someone at a conference, or you can hear someone speak, or you can, the opportunities are there if you pay attention and if you show up, you know, and they're there, you know, but it depends what you want out of them, and so, you know.

Emily:
Yeah, I mean, if we talk about how do you get an interview, I mean, I think it is following journalists on LinkedIn or on, I mean, you know, threads, seeing what, you know, a lot of people, a lot of journalists actually put questions out on threads on X on, I think there's a new one called something or other. But yeah, so, you know, I feel like if that's your intent, like you want to take it to that next step, how do you get the interview? I'd say look at what's being written. What are the trends? Can you come up with three examples of something and pitch your idea using some examples? I mean, I think one of the things we talked a lot about in the prep was like, how can you as the subject matter expert make it easier for the journalists. Journalists are really pressed for time, you know, and a lot of people are pitching them. So, you know, one way to stand out is actually to make the journalist's job easier and to pitch them almost like a full package. So yourself and then maybe two of your competitors. Like, that's one way to get a story is like to, you know, kind of offer the complete package. You know, other things like kind of tagging on to something that's viral. I remember you and I both kind of picked up on an image that was going around LinkedIn about a woman standing on this kind of like It was like a standing chair, which is kind of a Nazi moron, but that's what it was. It was like a stool for behind the front desk. And we were both like, what is this? This is so cool. Like that, you know, had the ability to be a feature story. I mean, certainly for me and I think probably for you as well.

Josiah:
Yeah, well, it's a great example. I might have to share that out afterwards. But I think hearing you share that, Emily, and then what you mentioned earlier, Nancy, around writing, we were talking about hot takes. My hot take is there's not one media format that's better than another. And there may be some benefits to appear across different types of formats. But if you don't like speaking, or I've worked with some people that English is not their first language, and it's difficult, I think there is so much power to just doing something, right? So Emily, to that point, I think the person that published that was based in Thailand. It was just an image, right? It was one photo taken with their phone. It was not professional. And probably hundreds of thousands of people sought insane coverage because it was an interesting thing. And I think, Nancy, to what we're talking about of writing, writing is super powerful, right? It doesn't matter what your native language is or how you're comfortable talking. Your writing could be a powerful opportunity. And so I would advise maybe one path to be just double down on one format and start there and get good at it, right? That's great.

Nancy:
That's a great piece of advice. Whatever first step you take, It's going to lead somewhere, you know? So whether it's writing or speaking or being interviewed, it's going to go somewhere, so.

Emily:
I love it.

Josiah:
The Q&A, I'm going to pull up this. We got a couple of great questions coming in. I see CJ in the chat. To your point, Emily, of making it easy. CJ does a great job with that. I sometimes get emails with all these great tie-ins. He does an amazing job kind of prepping people and makes it super, super easy, right? And so I end up covering a lot of those folks because he makes it easy. Meredith has a great question on after media coverage. We might come back to that. We see Ashley in the chat. Hey, Ashley, great to see you. We have Emily with a question of how do you recommend finding the right contacts to make their pitch? That might be a good one to cover.

Emily:
Yeah, I'll take that. And then, yeah, I mean, I'd say the people who you follow, like, what do you read? What are you listening to? And then really, you know, engage with that platform enough so that you understand how they construct a story. And then go from there, find out who's the journalist, find out who wrote the story. I mean, as a journalist and as a form of PR, there is nothing better than when someone emails you and is like, I love this story that you wrote about X or whatever, and here's why. Flattery will get you a long way.

Josiah:
That's great. Barack has a great question here around, is the age-old saying of let your work and success speak for yourself, or are we in this age of shameless self-promotion? I would say more of the latter. You can call it a bunch of different things. I think they go hand in hand. So my take on this, and I would love both of your opinions, my take on it is you do have to do something worth talking about. That could be excellent work. It could be some innovation. but you have to have something worth talking about. You both have shared about that, but you need to start there. But once you start there, you can have the best thing in the world, but if nobody sees it, there's not gonna be benefits beyond the people that see it or experience your service in this case. So I would view it less as shameless self-promotion and more about serving and inspiring others, kind of frame it with a helpful mindset. It's not just about you. So that would be my take.

Nancy:
It's almost like what you say, but you use the word shameless. You know, shameless, like that right there. You know, why is there shame involved? You know, why is it a shameful thing? I mean, people are promoting. I mean, you got to get out there and do it. And shame is a big something bot for people. But, you know, we have to stop saying shameless self-promotion because if you don't promote it,

Emily:
I was going to say, it's like idea sharing. If you did something awesome at your job and you wanted to share it with your boss and your colleagues because it worked really well, it's about learning and sharing so that they replicate whatever it was that you've done that worked. I think it's like when you're doing that for an external audience, it's still kind of that same thinking. It's like, this is actually just a really cool idea. I'd love to share with you because maybe you can do it too, which is essentially the basis of your show.

Nancy:
You're excited to share it. I mean, that's what we're doing here. I mean, that's the whole reason we're here, because we're excited to share.

Josiah:
Incredible. I love it. I do want to get into how to prep to be interviewed, but just a couple of quick remarks here, observations that I've had. I, again, want to really empower people to think, each of you listening, there's an opportunity for you today, regardless of where your career level is. After this, actually this afternoon, to make this practical and real, I'm driving south 30 minutes of San Francisco. I'm meeting with a student for an hour to talk about their experience, why they chose to work in hospitality. I think it's going to be a really interesting story. They are just getting started, their entry level, a year of experience. So you don't need to have some senior title. In fact, I've done more than 500 interviews for Hospitality Daily. It is very rarely the CEOs that are the most interesting stories. The most interesting are people that embody the principles that we've been talking about here. And that's available to you regardless of where you're at in your career. So don't think this needs to be something I need to reach the top. Honestly, those are rarely the most interesting stories. You get started, you get started now. And then the last thing was just be spontaneous too. So I think, you know, one of my most popular interviews I've done over the last couple months was in the car on the way to the airport is after a conference, Kevin Osterhaus, the head of lifestyle brands for Hilton needed a ride to the airport. Him and I just jumped in the car spontaneously. We had a conversation, tens of thousands of people saw it, people loved it. It was very off the cuff and people enjoyed that spontaneity. So, um, Spontaneous is good, but preparation, if you can also, there's benefit to that. So I do want to segue into that a little bit. Emily, I'm going to hand it over to you because if you have a chance to prepare, it's probably worth it. So how do you think about that?

Emily:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, don't, don't wing it if you, if you can. I mean, you know, you think about maybe three things you want the person to walk away with and have those let's say, soundbites in your mind. And then also really, like, get to know who's ever interviewing you. Like, Google them. I mean, this may seem like obvious advice, but see how they write, what their style is, what, you know, might be that what they're asking you. Some journalists will give you that up front. So it's OK to ask. I think it's always good to ask if you can. And yeah, I would say that is good. I mean, Nancy's prepared so many people from for interviews so she can speak about that as well.

Nancy:
Yeah, I mean, you've covered a lot of it, but it's, you know, there are tips for when you're being interviewed that, you know, you can Google them, you know, that these are the great tips. Take a sip of water if you don't have an answer to a question, you know, all of that stuff. Compliment the, you know, compliment the interview. That's a great question. Well, you can only do that once or twice. You know, glad you asked. But the most important thing is to have the right mindset, and we all prepare differently. I mean, Emily's process, your process, and my process, for preparing is, I'm sure, different, but it ultimately goes, I don't know why I always use Cleveland. You know, we're all going to end up in Cleveland, but we're taking different roads. And the biggest thing I learned is to speak to express, not to impress. And when you Speak to express. It kind of takes it off of, look at me. Am I doing a good job? I want to be a great speaker. And we all come at this. You come at everything with, look, I don't want to make an ass of myself. I want to give something. I want people to walk away with something. By expressing something, it takes it off of you. and what you are delivering and what you are trying to get across. And, you know, people, especially when there's a Q&A, and there are so many, for every interview, there's a different interviewer style. And what I realized the other day is, you know, when you have a Q&A, people are predisposed to thinking there's a right answer. Question, answer, question. And so, you know, you want to be the kid in school that's like, ooh, ooh, I have the right answer. Well, the right answer is your answer. It's your take on it. You're being interviewed because you have a point of view that people are interested in. And, you know, if you can take away that fear of being right, we all have different ways of prepping, you know, for an interview or you know, how, but being in the right mindset, I just, can I share one story that was just so freaky that I learned? Years and years ago, I was working in, I lived in Columbia, South America, and I was walking down the street, and don't ask me why I was there, but I was in Medellin, nothing to do with drugs, and so I was walking down the street, and I saw an advertising agency, Leo Burnett, National Agency. I thought, you know, I really want a job. I was there for a teaching thing, and years and years ago, I was in my 20s, and I walked in, and I could barely speak English, but I had a background. And I said, you know, in my, as much, I mean, I barely speak English, barely speak Spanish, and I got a job. And so, because they wanted an American's perspective. So, I get a job as a writer. Great, I can't even speak the language now I've got a job as a writer. So working on a lot of really interesting accounts, big pitch, big pitch is coming up and my boss gets sick and it's now you have to pitch. And I'm like what? I mean I knew the material, I knew But my language, I mean, my language skills were terrible. I went home during siesta. I thought, you are the messenger. You are the messenger. It's not about you. You are the messenger. And so I psyched myself up. And also at the time I wrote, I was writing jingles on my little guitar. And I was, you know, so I was prepared to sing a jingle and play my guitar, but I was not prepared to pitch. And what happened, what ended up happening was that I tried so hard to communicate and that the clients were riveted. They were absolutely riveted and thrilled. And I didn't even know what I was saying. I was trying like, I'm sorry about, I learned how to say I'm so sorry, my Spanish isn't good. But they were riveted and we got the business and they threw me in there to pitch everything because I tried so hard. I just want to say I also taught a course at NYU about marketing and I had a lot of international students and one of the most riveting presentations was from someone who barely spoke English because he tried so hard to communicate and he worked so hard at it that he just blew everybody away. And so, you know, trying hard, showing up, being yourself, being vulnerable. I mean, people think that they have to show up and be polished and slick and, you know, that's great. That's great if you can be, but not all of us can be. And people really root for people who will show their vulnerability. And so that's okay, too. So, you know, I got a lot more to say, but you do, too.

Josiah:
No, that's a great story. I appreciate you sharing that. And I think what resonates with me there is the showing vulnerability. The goal, unless you're literally on TV, and maybe there's an exception there, but the goal is not to appear like a news broadcaster all the time, especially in my world, right? And you have a background in TV, Nancy, so maybe even in that world, there's still benefits to showing up as a real person.

Nancy:
But it was so interesting. I have done a lot of interviews. When I worked for CBS, I did a lot of celebrity interviews and a lot of actors on set. And I started to develop a style. I would say to the crew, run the camera. Just start rolling. And I would be having these great conversations with accomplished actors. Are we rolling yet? When are we rolling? And I said, oh, we've been rolling. And they change. They immediately change. I learned from this, that's like, how do you get people comfortable? You know, how do you get people comfortable enough to get past that, I have to be someone different than who I am? I have to be. Well, you don't. You know your material. You wouldn't be speaking. Nobody would be interviewing if you didn't know what you were talking about. But having that confidence, you know, to Okay, so if you screw up, you screw up. But people root for you then. You know, if you show up all polished and slick, and people have a tendency to want to take you down, and they do. But if you're honest and vulnerable and, you know, it's getting that connection. How are you going to connect? How are you just not another talking head that's talking at people? You know, talk to people, really.

Josiah:
What have you learned, Nancy, in terms of helping? I'm wondering if we can kind of help our listeners think about how to get into that state of mind of being present, being a little more relaxed. Because even as we were going live with this, before we hit live, there's that going on air sort of feeling. But what have you learned and how do you coach others to get more into the moment and relax a bit?

Nancy:
Well, everybody, I mean, I can give tips to people, but everybody has their own unique, unique way to get into it. There's usually a three-minute, you know, a three-minute discomfort, and when I've interviewed people, my main goal is to try to get them to be comfortable. In hospitality, unless you've done something heinous, this is not ambush journalism, and people are not trying to They're not trying to get out and say, where were you? And how come that happened? And that's not what this is. So it's a sharing. You know, it's a sharing of information. But we're so predisposed to wanting to be right and wanting to be, you know, if you want to be a keynote speaker and that's your intent, when somebody walks away from hearing you, well then, good, you'll get more bookings. you know, have you been to, you know, how many, how many conferences have you been to where somebody, you walk away going, oh my God, what a great speaker. Wow, what a great speaker. And well, okay, that's a great speaker, but I like to walk away from a conference or hearing some, I had a great idea. What a great idea. I'm so inspired by that. That, you know, I always quote Maya Angelou and, you know, people, people don't remember what you say or what you did. They remember how you made them feel. And that's what, that's where that connection comes in. And so, um, I, I have 10 different ways to psych myself up, you know, and it's, but you got to find those. I know somebody that drinks a cup of tea, hot tea, and then paces back and forth on the stage until she's comfortable and develop your own style. I mean, there are, there are tips. But develop that, and I know people that medicate. I don't suggest that as a way to go, but whatever works for you. But the point is, think about your intent and what you want. As Emily said, what do you want people to walk away with? How do you want people to feel?

Josiah:
Yeah. Yeah. And having that intent is so important. And I like what you said earlier about being the messenger, right? You think about being the messenger. Why am I here? That intent, you know, as you said, Emily, how do I be useful and valuable? I think that's often helpful. I find for myself a little bit of preparation almost helps me relax because I kind of know the general thing. If I start with the intent of helping people, I start with the intent of being valuable. I'm going to think about what is it in my life or my story or what I'm doing or observing that will help people. And then I feel a little more comfortable because I feel like I can kind of play jazz, right? Wherever this conversation goes, I have some stuff to work with, right? And so for me, I find my personal thing is kind of like, I find writing clarifies. So whether it is kind of journaling or kind of writing, just text stuff out beforehand helps clarify my thoughts. And I like to think about a couple of things before I'm being interviewed. One is, what am I thinking about now? Especially if you've had media coverage before, people don't want to hear the same stories that they've heard on 10 other podcasts. They want to know here and now. Again, how can I be useful here and now? I like to think about those, you know, we talked earlier about hot takes or different perspectives. What do I have a different view than most? You know, that's where you add to the conversation and you're not just an echo chamber, right? You have to think about what's my, and you're not trying to be controversial or different just for the sake of it. You're trying to think about how do I really help people here with something that's authentic to me that I can share? You know, stories, you shared a great story, Nancy, I think our brains are wired around stories. And so that's important. And, you know, there's probably things going on in your business that you are proud of and that's okay. I think, you know, if you have a new hotel opening, you know, on my show, I don't cover that per se, but maybe you had a unique perspective on doing that, or you had a different approach and there's value to others learning from that approach. So I think some of that prep I find useful. And then once I've done that, you talk about pacing before something. I find, honestly, there's two practical things. I find blocking time before and after the interview. You can't end a meeting, hang up on one Zoom call at 9.55 and then jump at 10 o'clock on an interview and be in the perfect state of mind if you can block at least 30 minutes before and after. Because you want to get in the zone a little bit. I'll put some music on. I'll let my mind wander. So it depends on the context, but Nancy, it sounds like you look like you've got, yeah.

Nancy:
I have a question for you. When you prep, do you talk out loud? Because a lot of people will do it in their heads. You know, they'll prep in their heads, but it's very important to hear your own voice when you're prepping. And so I, my caps have had it with me, but I do, they're a very captive audience, but I talk out loud. And a lot of people don't. And I think it's really important because when you hear your own voice, it's, oh, OK. Don't keep it in your head. Try to talk to a friend. Run it by something. Run it by someone. Talk to your dog. Talk to your cats. Just get it out there so you can hear yourself. That's also an important thing to do.

Josiah:
I think it's a great tip. I find that especially useful for public speaking or giving some kind of conferencing. You got to hear that. Ideally, like in conferences, I'll go to the stage beforehand, like the night before or something. I get up there and I visualize in my hotel room, I'm going to be kind of running through that. So it's really important to kind of get in that state of mind. But yeah, I guess just kind of continuing on with other mistakes to avoid, just I guess generally throughout this process. Again, for our listeners, feel free to drop questions or comments into the chat here. But I'd be curious, Emily or Nancy, any other kind of things that we haven't covered, mistakes?

Nancy:
Yes. It's not necessarily mistakes, but it's something that we talked about. It's something that we talked about that I think is definitely worth talking about. And Emily can speak more to it because it's stuff that we hear at her teller. But as I, you know, when we sort of started, we talked about how You know, men have always shown up. You know, it's tradition. It's always been men at the table and men speaking and men, you know, and it's hard to break tradition. But now more than ever, women are invited to the table or clawed our way to the table. And now that we're there and invited to speak, we bring a lot of predisposed thinking. And I know, Emily, you can speak to this. A lot of people, even though they're invited, a lot of women are hesitant to show up to speak. Can you talk more about that? Because it's really fascinating. And now that we're here and we have these opportunities.

Emily:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, why not? I mean, somebody thinks you have something interesting to say. Believe them. They're curious about you and your opinion, and you should share it. You know, I think people get wrapped up in, like you say, some of the things like being nervous or, you know, worrying about what the outcome might be. And I think it's it is about bringing your authentic self and then just, you know. and just going for it, and then you'll see it, and just like anything else, with each time, it'll get easier. You know, in terms of other things to avoid, I'd say, you know, and this is something I learned from John Tish, he's like, he always shows up early, you know, he's never late. I was once with him, I think, when a reporter actually turned up late, and, you know, he never forgot that. So, you know, it's really being punctual, showing that you're, you know, that you've read the publication, you're familiar with them and their beat and things that they've written. You know, I think that really goes much further than you would think. just to have done that research. And just kind of the general manners you would use in any sort of important business meeting. And also, I'd say journalists, they want sources. I mean, I'm always looking for people who make it, again, making it easy for the journalists. So, no, let the journalists know. In fact, I think CJ just, Arlotta, just put this in his newsletter recently, which I love. And it was all about, you know, being available as a source. Journalists are always looking for people to quote a quick quote, a quick, you know, endorsement of this or that, or to reinforce an idea or a story they might be working on. So, just be available and reply to things. So, you know, kind of be punctual and also reply to things punctually.

Josiah:
I love it. Yeah. Nancy, any other things that you've seen?

Nancy:
Oh, gosh. Don't get me started, Willie. Honestly, I have seen so many things that I can't even speak of.

Josiah:
That probably wasn't a great question. Any mistakes to avoid would be a better question.

Nancy:
Mistakes to avoid. It's important. Don't be hostile. And also, if somebody asks you, For example, you can overprepare. You can really overprepare and try to keep too much stuff in your head and have stats to memorize. And if somebody asks you for a stat, well, what percentage of, well, off the top of my head, don't get panicked if somebody asks you for a stat. You could wade through the paper that you wrote it down on. You know, I can get back to you with the actual stat, but the trend, you know, based on the trend which I, you know, or based on the trend that I see, you know, There are more women speaking, but we still have a long way to go. Or, you know, there's always... Don't ever rest on your laurels. I mean, the worst thing you can do is... The worst thing you can do is... I know I hate to drop a name, but I know you put it in the notes because it meant something. The very first person I ever interviewed was a man named Mike Wallace at CBS and he was one of the original 60 Minutes correspondents and that was my very first interview. They threw me in to talk to him and One of the best pieces of advice I got from him, I said, how do you do this? I mean, you've done everything. You've seen everything. You're starting a new show. You've talked. And he said, I always look at, it may look the same, but I always look at every opportunity with fresh eyes. And that stayed with me. So even if you've, you know, even if you've done this before and you think you know, You know, you don't. You always have something to learn. And that whole thing that he said to me really, I look at everything now with fresh eyes. And even if I've done something before, it's like, you know, keeping those moments open, as you talked about, for spontaneity in an interview or, you know, turning something into a conversation or Those are the magic moments, and those are the moments that cut through and, you know, connect with people. So fresh eyes is a good one.

Josiah:
Amazing. Cool. We're nearing the top of the hour here, so we need to wrap shortly. But I do want to take a question here. We actually had a couple of questions around the idea of how do you keep momentum going once you do receive media coverage? I can take a first pass at this, but would love both of your perspectives. I think for me, we talked about how to pitch effectively. It's often helpful when I see a pitch to see what are previous stories or interviews that you've done. So I get a sense of your style. And so I think having that, collecting that, whether it's press page on your site or posts on your LinkedIn page. Having a place where you can go to see previous press appearances can be useful. And then I think repurposing is so helpful. I think we talked at the beginning of the conversation of all the diversity of media outlets. If you are appearing in a podcast, it can become a great social post or a written blog post. Emily, you were just recently on a podcast and they created a blog post off of this. I'd love to get your take.

Emily:
How do you think about repurposing? I'm all for it because also, we're now the slaves of the algorithm. You just don't even know what people are seeing, what they're not seeing. You may think, oh, I'm reposting the same thing, but actually, Maybe. 90% of the people who you are interacting with don't even see it. And I do think there is something to building momentum. It's like, you know, media gets ideas from media. That's just the way it works, whether it's through Google search or whatever. So just keep going after it. And I would say, actually, being in one publication does somehow make you more interesting to journalists. Like, oh, well, so-and-so covered them, so maybe I should too.

Josiah:
Amazing. Nancy?

Nancy:
No, I mean, Emily's, I share, you know, share what you've done. I mean, it's one thing to share it again and repost it and ask your friends to share it. And, you know, there's that, there's that certain viral aspect of things, but you know, when you do an article or there's an article about you share it, you know, and cause that, that opens it up to a wider audience and, you know, the, Look, that's how you keep the momentum going.

Emily:
Or just do a slightly different take on it or somehow refresh it or peg it to something else. I mean, there's always a different, you know.

Nancy:
Well, you're a master at that. You know, you're really a master at that, Emily, because I'll see, you know, something that you post and then somebody else posts something and then you'll respond to it with, oh, check out this link and check out that link. And you are, you're very good at that. Your mind is like super at that, so.

Josiah:
There's so much potential here, and this is why it's worth investing all of the time and preparation that we've talked about on this call, because one interview, one piece of media coverage could be repurposed in countless ways. It could almost provide a year's worth of social media content, or there's so much you can get out of this by repurposing, reformatting, saying it in a different way. And I think it back to Barack's question here of how much of this is shameless self-promotion. If we start with the, both of you have touched on this, but this objective of how do we be useful and valuable and help other people? It is this effort, not only to get the initial media coverage, but the effort to repurpose it and get it in front of people is again, in service of other people. You're inspiring them, you're helping them. And so it's your duty to get it out there. So it's a huge, huge opportunity. Before we go, I want to make sure our listeners can learn more about both of your work. Emily, I'll pass it to you first. Where would you invite our listeners to go to learn more about you and follow your work?

Emily:
Yeah, please. If you're not already following her till you're on LinkedIn, please do that. And then also if you go to www.hertelier.com, H-E-R-T-E-L-I-E-R.com, there is a tab to sign up for our newsletter, but if you click on any article about five seconds later, it'll prompt you to put your email in. Sign up for our weekly newsletter. We send it out every Sunday. We cover not just what's in Hotelier, which we do cover, but we also do kind of a feminist slant on the news of the week, as well as travel news. So we have a really high open rate, so I think people like it. And as you said, Josiah, it's the best newsletter in the business, so.

Josiah:
I mean, yes, yes, I know. You have, you have, well.

Nancy:
Self-promotion.

Josiah:
Well, I mean, I'll just say, I mean, my whole background is in marketing and you shared your engagement rates, Emily. It's about three to four times the industry averages. Unbelievable. I've never seen the site. It's because it's so good. It's so good. You have to be sharing good stuff. So highly recommend everyone go check that out. Nancy, what about yourself? Where would you point people?

Nancy:
Well, hertelier, of course, and feel free to contact me through LinkedIn with any questions, anything. 

Emily:
Nancy writes this weekly column, and often we will be inspired by someone writing in a question. So send us your story. That is true. I mean, you say this.

Nancy:
Well, that's how it was supposed to start, but people are hesitant to write in questions. I've always wondered about that, but don't ask anything, really, ask us anything.

Josiah:
Amazing, amazing. Well, highly recommend everyone do that. Big thanks to everybody who joined today and submitted your questions. It was so good to see you all. I invite you to follow Hospitality Daily on LinkedIn or connect with me on LinkedIn. You can also get my daily recap at hospitalitydaily.com/subscribe, and we'd love to stay in touch. But thank you all for joining. Huge thank you to you, Nancy, and you, Emily, for joining and doing this with me. This was a lot of fun. So I hope you all have a great rest of your day.