How We Create Experiences, Hotels, and Brands To Provide What Today's Traveler Wants - Philip Bates, TMC Hospitality

Josiah: I'm curious if you've had an early experience with hospitality as a guest somewhere that was formative for you and maybe led you to what you're doing today.

Philip: Absolutely. When you said that word formative, it reminded me of the first international trip I ever took when I was, I think it was, I might've been a freshman in college. And my friends and I, on spring break, we bought, I think it was like an $80 round trip. to Europe and it took us to Czechoslovakia, Prague. It was like, we had no idea where we were going, but it was something we could forge. And I remember, you know, those flights would get you through like two layovers, like 20 hours, like the worst flight you could get. And we went and we stayed in, this was 2003 or 2004. So long before Airbnb and HomeAway and VRBO were not yet that mainstream. And we kind of found a flat, like, like on Craigslist or something. And we went there and we got off our plane. Somehow they, I don't even remember how we made it to the flat. We're like walking down the street. Is this the right address? You know, we didn't have Google Maps or any of that kind of stuff. Ultimately, we made our way into this downtown Prague flat, and we were met there by the owner, who was a local architect. And we stayed in his flat. Not with him. He went somewhere else. But because he's an architect, it was kind of well-designed. It was right in the heart of the city, with cobblestone streets, bars, and restaurants all around. And it just was a week-long simulation of what it would have been like to live in Prague. It really was the first time that I realized quite how big the world is and how interesting it would be to live in other places and to travel to other places. And because we met him, he was able to tell us like, this is where, you know, this is the best internet cafe. Remember back in the day, you would have to go to a destination to get internet. And we, so we would go there every morning, check our emails, drink our coffee, he told us the best bars, the best restaurants. the cool sites to see that a local would have seen. And that just really stuck with me on like a way to travel. And frankly, I think still somewhat informs even how Drift and Boat go without hospitality today.

Josiah: I love that story. We'll get more into what you're doing today, but just one more question to just give our listeners a sense of what is great hospitality to you. I'm curious if you've experienced great hospitality recently at another business that stands out to you as they're doing it right.

Philip: I actually stayed at a house in Costa Rica a couple weeks ago that was joined to a resort. What I thought they did right there, that they did really well is the people, like, I think it might be cultural down there, but everybody was so happy, so attentive, so personable. I think I might've exchanged numbers with like three or four of the employees there, stayed in touch, and we'll definitely reach out to them if I if I go back. And there was just a sentiment that they had time for you. They're busy, they're doing their job or whatever, but like they have time for you. And we got to know them. I got to learn much more about their country and their culture, their food, and why they do certain things. Then I think you might find it in most hospitality experiences because, a lot of times, it's just easy to get caught up in the business of hospitality. but you're actually losing the core of hospitality, which really is kind of receiving people, taking care of people, creating bonds with people. And you know, business is hard and we can lose track of that. And this particular outfit didn't lose sight of that. And my sons were with me, and they like to remember the names of these people, and It was impactful for them. That might be everybody's experience in Costa Rica because it could just be a national disposition, but at least at the place I went to, I thought it was so charming and endearing.

Josiah: Amazing. Well, I wonder if we could transition to talk a little bit about your career and what drew you to hospitality. You spent some time working in private equity and venture capital, and then you made a move into the hospitality world for many of the reasons that you mentioned. I get the appeal, the allure of hospitality. It feels amazing to receive. But I'm curious for you on a career level, why decide to make this pivot into the world of hospitality? Was it just good feelings or did you see a bigger opportunity from a financial business perspective as well?

Philip: Yeah, I think maybe a little bit of both kind of always been a little bit of an entrepreneur. I started my first company when I was 16, had businesses throughout college. And even as I had jobs out of college, um, I would have five businesses, excuse me. And so I think the spirit of entrepreneur of an entrepreneur has kind of been with me, but I learned early on that, at the end of the day, particularly in America, investors called most of the shots for businesses. And so that is why I went into private equity and venture capital was really to understand that business, understand how it works, understand what motivates capital, understand the boundaries, the roles, the field in which you're playing with the thought of, if I understand that, then at some point I can emerge back out into the entrepreneurial world more well-equipped to speak the language of the capital that ultimately will be required to raise a successful business.

Josiah: I wonder for our listeners if you could just explain a little bit about kind of what may have been surprising in that. Because I think everybody, whether they're in that world or not, they assume the purpose of investment is just to make as much money as possible. Is that all there was? Was there anything kind of surprising or overlooked maybe by people as they think about the motivations of capital?

Philip: Yeah, I think the surprising thing is that it is effectively an industry in which greed is good, and I don't really care how you spend it. There's not really an ounce of altruism in it. It's a game, and you got to play it well, and you need to understand how to win it. And there are varying degrees at which what win at all costs means, but the emotional, the subjectivity, the qualitative things tend to be pushed to the side, and it tends to be much more quantitative, legal, and things like that. You know, for good reason, but that is something that I think particularly entrepreneurs in the hospitality space would do well to understand because a lot of what we do, it's a very subjective business. You're making people feel a certain way, which is highly subjective and not necessarily easily quantifiable. You might be able to quantify that in reviews or things like that. To really speak the language of investment capital, you need to understand what language they are speaking and then see your business through that lens and learn how to translate the aspects of your business that are successful into a language that would make sense for them. And I don't know if that was surprising to me, but it definitely was an impactful observation that I made. And so when I talk to my investors and future investors, I know what really matters to them. And I don't spend time on the things that I know they will not pay attention to. Even if I know it's important to the ultimate success of the business, I try to stick more to what success is in their eyes.

Josiah: I wonder if you could explain a little bit about kind of what you do at TMC Hospitality. My understanding is it's part of a larger TMC group, which is a diversified investment organization, right?

Philip: Yeah. So I joined TMC back in 2012, and I was in their real estate private equity arm. And we would invest with entrepreneurs and developers to build various real estate projects. I did about seven of those investments. And I saw an opportunity in the hospitality space, and I think this dovetails back to the original question you asked, which was, was it kind of a dream on the touchy-feely side, or was it like a larger business opportunity? And this is where I think it was probably both. The opportunity I saw at that time has since evolved, but it was fundamentally that travel is changing. And I think it's changing for a variety of reasons that are all colliding or convalescing at one given time. Number one, we are having unprecedented generational shifts just in terms of sizes of demographics. At that time, it was really the millennials starting to travel more and their travel patterns are changing. Number two, it was technology that was giving them more visibility into places and things like that. Number three, it was more advanced forms of travel, primarily through airlines. And then number four, just more global awareness that milling about the globe was becoming increasingly easier for people, whereas before, it was much more accessible only to the elites. Airline travel, at one point, was like a glamorous thing. People would get dressed up for it and things of that nature. Now, not so much, right? You get on Spirit Airlines, it's not the most glamorous setting. And all of those things colliding started bringing about fundamental changes in hospitality. The first one that I noticed was the proliferation of Airbnb around 2012, 2013. It seemed like every wedding I went to, every group of friends that I traveled with, we all not only stayed in Airbnbs, but wanted to stay in Airbnbs. It was like we wanted that experience. I mean, it was convenient that it was less expensive than hotel rooms, but it was like hanging out on the back porch. barbecuing in Montana to ourselves, listening to our own music, talking to each other till 3 a.m., or whatever that we wanted. And I thought, this is, these changes, whatever their ultimate outcome may be, I don't know what that's gonna be, but these changes are definitely gonna change the outcomes. I wanna be on the tip of the spear, kind of helping pioneer that, because I think whoever can figure out that recipe will have a broader opportunity. But to the kind of qualitative side of your question, I thought there are ways that we could enhance things to be more experiential and more tasteful. So there, on the one hand, there's just a massive business opportunity, the convergence of tech, demographics, affluence, and things like that. But then I think things like the iPhone really have elevated the design sense of the common man. you and I might not be designers, but now, with Pinterest and Instagram and all this, we suddenly have actually been kind of programmed to elevate our taste. And so I think better and better design is table stakes at this point, where historically, I think hotels were largely built around convenience. Food and beverage, I think, you know, I mean, how many kinds of pour waffle breakfasts have you had at a hotel? But more and more, that's just unacceptable. You need a gourmet waffle, a Dutch waffle, a waffle a waffle with a breakfast or whatever to really capture guests. And so that's where for me, and I think TMC hospitality, we definitely want to capture a bigger business opportunity, but we also seek product excellence in our design, in our food service, in our hospitality, the way we make our beds, etc. Like every person in our company, we really stress like we are craftsmen and whatever we're doing, if we're cleaning the floor, if we're making a cocktail, if we're pouring coffee, it should be the best quality of that thing that we are doing. Because that is really what enhances the experience of our guests. And I think it will ultimately go back to the kind of a bigger opportunity, which is more people are traveling. The demands of travelers are higher, the experiences they want need to be better. And we need to kind of position ourselves to sort of capture that. There's definitely the layer of technology and efficient operating models that enable us from a financial perspective to capitalize on that. But we cannot lose sight of the fact that our product is really, at the end of the day, the excellence in our product that we have to strive for.

Josiah: Let's connect all these threads and talk about how this manifests in the brands that you have. We're recording today at the Drift Santa Barbara, but you have a nationwide portfolio of diverse concepts. I appreciate you hosting me here because getting to experience this hotel for myself, if people haven't experienced it on State Street in Santa Barbara, the first thing you see walking up is the kind of the ground floor is mostly occupied by Dawn, your third wave coffee shop, serving amazing coffee, and then Dusk, which is incredible bar concept, right? And so, depending on the time of day that you walk by, you're going to see this kind of hives of activity. And I took a bunch of photos I'll share with the story where people can kind of get a sense of this, or better, they can come by and experience this for themselves. I would love to hear your words. I mean, you have a variety of brands, but maybe let's kind of start out with Drift. The point of view that you are making with this brand, what do you want your guests to feel, to experience through this brand? And then maybe we talk about other brands after. Let's start out with Drift. What's your perspective on hospitality that you want guests to experience here?

Philip: With Drift, this is going to sound interesting, but I think it'll make sense. I can't speak about the spirit of Drift without talking about Baja, California. The reason for that is my wife and I first went there, I think it was 2017, and we just fell in love with it for a lot of reasons. One is just the general area, the climate, the kind of desert meets the ocean, the light, the colors, the warmth of the ocean, the tropical marine life. And ultimately I purchased actually a small little Airbnb that became Drift. And what I found really as a guest was that in this little area, it was in San Jose del Cabo, or it still is in San Jose del Cabo, what I found was this culture, this group of people, that are really what created just the most magical experience. And the reason was everything these people touched, they did it so well. One might not think of, might not correlate kind of design to Baja, but if you go there and you look at the projects that are happening now, It is like top tier, best-in-class design. When you eat their food, it's just so good. Like they won't make it unless it's good. Their hospitality is so down to earth. You'll never hear the word now. In fact, you hear the word C or yes a little too much in that like there's almost nothing you can ask them to do. And when you take it all together, it became this kind of spirit of hospitality that I saw an opportunity in wherein I saw in America, hospitality had become too rigid. It was like, you know, we all talk about a guest journey, and it's like, okay, Josiah, at this point, I want you to turn left, and I want you to see this. And then I, it's like I have to program every, every step of your way. Uh, well, the word drift is a lot more kind of free-flowing. I think about like, you know, seaweed in the ocean, just sort of kind of drifting free flowing. Uh, no, no, no specific agenda, but at the same time being surrounded with wonderful service, wonderful design, uh, wonderful food and beverage. And I felt like that was captured there in Baja. And so with drift, I wanted to take that. and I wanted to bring the essence of that spirit throughout the nation and hopefully at some point throughout the world. And that is not to say that I want to shove Baha into every box that we go to throughout the nation, but more it was just there's a certain spirit there that I think becomes very refreshing when taken to any kind of any city, it needs to be altered to fit the personality, the character, the culture of that city, such that when you come to Nashville, you experience an authentic Nashville, but Southern hospitality is at the forefront. The design trends that are really driving the city of Nashville are at the forefront. The best food and beverages are at the forefront. And really at the end of the day, there's nothing our staff won't do for you. And when that's taken together, I think it becomes really special.

Josiah: I wonder if you could just illustrate this by sharing, it could be a very small example, but what this looked like translating that from Cabo into Santa Barbara and then Santa Barbara to Nashville, because I feel like Santa Barbara is closer geographically, but just in many ways to Cabo. Nashville is a whole different environment. And so to your point of, I guess, combining the spirit of a place with the feeling of a local place, because my sense of the Drift Santa Barbara feels very Santa Barbara. My great-grandparents moved here in the 1920s. And I kind of have a sense of, okay, what, what kind of feels like Santa Barbara? And I feel like it, it kind of nails it, but it's modern and it's fresh. I'm curious how you thought about that translation, if you will, into this environment.

Philip: Yeah. Well, thank you. First off, because that was our goal. And so to have someone who has, has roots in Santa Barbara make that observation makes me happy because that means to some extent we, we accomplished, accomplished our goal. I think that you're absolutely right. There is more of a correlation between Baja and Santa Barbara than there is in Nashville. But as you know, they're both very different. So if you look at our drift in Baja, it's very modern, both on the exterior and the interior. You know, some of the doors are just those huge sliding windows, almost like barbed or glass windows. A lot of modernity, a lot of concrete and things like that. And when we came into Santa Barbara, well, I think the first limiting factor was just the classic quintessential Santa Barbara architecture that encapsulated the building in which we created Drift. And we can't change that, nor do we really want to change that. And so we needed to lean into that. Yet in Baja and in Drift, there's a certain modern industrial feel. And so we wanted to really bring that to the forefront in Santa Barbara. And so some of the ways we did that are those wood slats behind the bed, which are the original redwood that constructed the building. And if you touch them, they're a little raw. They were sanded down and stained. They were left in their raw form to give some of that industrial feel that I think is inherent to drift because in the Baja, when they're building, labor is so cheap that they don't manufacture anything. Everything is done by hand. And with that sort of echo of motto is kind of the phrase that made by hand, that's the phrase they use. With that, there's imperfection. And I think the imperfections in those redwood very much resemble drift, yet they're true to coastal California. That wood is natural to this region. Then I think it also helped that pretty much all of our design team, our art, everybody was from here. So all the photography, that surf photography that kind of lines the hallways, that was done by Will Adler. He's a local Santa Barbara surfer, a great surf photographer who just has a certain take that I just think is very, very beautiful and very quintessential Santa Barbara. And I think that we really, you know, as you know, the rooms are very small there. And so we, what I didn't want to do is, I mean, we ran the risk of them feeling even smaller than they already feel. And so the two moves that we did there that I think, again, go back to that kind of Baja design, but still remain true, Santa Barbara, I remember one, we painted the walls black. And the idea there is a little bit counterintuitive because when you think of a beach town, you think bright, airy, open. We painted them black to make you feel warmer and cozier, but also not so aware of exactly where the wall starts and stops and things like that. The second thing we made was those glass showers. So instead of having drywall, kind of around there, we made a glass so that when no one is in there, you can see through it and the room feels larger. Then when someone's in there, you can just draw the curve and they can have privacy. But we felt like those were very distinct Baja design moves, but felt somehow fit in Santa Barbara. I don't know how

Josiah: It feels good. Yeah. Well, waking up in that environment in the morning wasn't, let's say, at my peak, but I feel like being in that environment sort of helped me ramp into the day. And then I feel like getting a coffee at dawn. I had a really good cortado. I love it; I'm always on the hunt for a good cortado. It was really, really good. And service was phenomenal. But it was interesting, like to your point, I think, I don't think enough about these details, but there's something about that environment felt kind of cozy, but then there's still sun outside. It just kind of worked.

Philip: Yeah. Actually, you made a really good point there. When you do see the sun after that, it just lights your day up because you're kind of in a moody little cocoon for a little while.

Josiah: Amazing. I wonder if we could pivot a little bit to talk about Bode because you mentioned staying at these Airbnbs and that group travel experience was really meaningful for for you. Can you tell me a little bit more about the origins of Bode and your point of view of hospitality that you're aiming to provide through that brand?

Philip: Bode is definitely much more Airbnb-esque. When we actually started in this industry, we actually started by buying Airbnbs. We built some software that helped track where Airbnb demands were at that time across the nation. And the idea there really was back to kind of noticing all those changes in hospitality was that people love traveling this way, but there are certain imperfections with the stay because each one was sort of dependent on really how good the host was in terms of the quality of their furnishings or the caliber of their service or the location of their home, you know, all those kinds of things. So we did try, or we did, we bought about 30 homes and did well with it, but ultimately we didn't like that business. And so my thought was, can we figure out how to take some of the core tenants of the Airbnb model that we like, but put it into a hotel setting so we can eliminate some of the kind of risk that the guest is taking in terms of, like, I remember when we started Airbnb, sometimes people would email you and be like, does this house really exist or is this like a scam or, you know, just questions that you wouldn't think about if you're booking a hotel. And so we wanted to do that with Bode. Bode is sort of short for abode, kind of lopping the A off. And so in Nashville, which was our first one, we bought, I think it was about 40, we bought a condominium complex, effectively. And we converted them into kind of cool boutique little flats. And then we added some F&B with Dawn and Sidebar. And, you know, we have these spacious balconies that, like to me, a big part of Bode is what we call like a social group experience. And that is that. And it's those moments, you know, when you, when you're having coffee with your friends after a show that you saw last night or an event you went to and you're kind of rehashing it and you're laughing and you're like, those are kind of the moments that Bo is designed to capture the, uh, you know, ordering Indian food and eating it on the porch till 1am with your buddies and just talking about what you did in college or what you're

Josiah: Are you getting people away from Airbnb? They're saying like, hey, that variability is not working for me. I'm looking through your guest reviews now. Number one on Nashville. I look across different review platforms, Traveller's Choice. I don't know. It seems guests love this. Is your sense that people are moving from Airbnbs to Bode when they're in Nashville?

Philip: I think so. And I don't necessarily love that because I love the kind of mom-and-pop entrepreneur that feeds the Airbnb machine.

Josiah: But is that just a myth, though? I feel like Airbnb is becoming more and more commercial. I think that's the dream of Airbnb and maybe like a dream in 2012. But now most of the inventory seems to be professionally run, and there's still this wide variance. I mean, I don't know. You're closer to this.

Philip: I think if we had to look at their data, I think it's probably 80-20. I think it's probably 80% commercial and 20% mom-and-pop. And that just is, you know, I think it's just the way the cookie crumbles, unfortunately, because, you know, as we said, today's guests, They have a lot of great options. They're very intelligent. They're sophisticated. They know what they want. And it's harder for a mom and pop to meet that because they're just more limited on their resources. So I think we are. As for take and share from the 80% of the other commercial people, absolutely. That's the goal. But the mom and pops, we love to give a little love to.

Josiah: I just got back from the NYU Hospitality Investment Conference. I feel like all the CEOs of big brands and others are talking about group travel being a huge segment. I don't see a lot of structural investment beyond just like, hey, we got to get better at group sales into building new concepts. So it feels like with Bode, this concept is almost purpose-built for this type of emerging. I mean, use the illustration of a group of friends. But I imagine this is just as applicable for a small organization that's doing some kind of an offsite and might benefit from this. I mean, it could be a company, it could be a nonprofit. But do you feel like there's more of an opportunity to have group travel oriented concepts? Do you see a meta trend of more of this type of travel, people traveling together?

Philip: We absolutely do. We, I mean, we have full-time group sales team members who sell corporate. Retreats to boat. And it's, it's interesting. You kind of hit the nail on the head in your question, which is that the ones who are willing to do it are the smaller startup nimblers. They're a much more close-knit team. And they actually, I would say, value that above regular hotel rooms. It's your larger. corporations that actually feel quite uncomfortable with it. And they're like, no, no, no, I want my own space. I want to be in my own hotel room, things like that. And so we are kind of evolving our floor plans to accommodate that, wherein you can take a three bedroom and you can have it be a group setting, or you can collapse it into three regular rooms. That way we can kind of cater to both. But the ones that, I mean, for example, our team, we don't actually have an office. We, what we do is we do quarterly retreats with our whole team and we go to hotels and, uh, we're a tight knit team and they love it. Like, it's like, Oh, I'm, you know, I'm living with AJ and whatever. And that becomes a part of your experience. Like. There is a lot of laughter and a lot of good memories, but it's not for everybody. But I do think it's a trend that capital will ultimately invest in a purpose-built strategy around that. I think we'll see some activity out of Marriott.

Josiah: Fantastic. I think Marriott may move on this, but I feel like organizations like yours that are, I don't know, I feel like there's an opportunity to be nimble and fresh and creative. So I'm interested to see as your business evolves. I guess one thing I'd love to get your take on is how you think about balancing, or not balancing, but the role of technology in the guest experience. You alluded to this earlier: people being very tech-savvy. You also, though, alluded to some of the aspects of hospitality you found most compelling, which were very personal. You talked about everything from these personal interactions and texting with individuals that you met to handmade environments. And I guess my question for you is, as you are thinking about designing these brands, building them, expanding them, how are you thinking about involving technology in that process? How far do you go? How far do you involve it? Where does it end?

Philip: I think that's a very timely question. if you just look at the rate of evolution, um, just, just from a technological perspective that has occurred in the last few decades, it's just so rapid, right? To some extent, we're almost running experience experiments with technology, right? Like social media is a really good one. It kind of comes out. Everyone's like, what is social media? And then you start to lie to the pros and cons of it. And you kind of adjust accordingly. I also think that technology in the hospitality setting is very similar. You know, at one point, we had an Airbnb. I kid you not. It was so kitted out with technology. It was like almost creepy. Like everything was a widget. We were turning our lights on and off remotely. We're like, heat mapping traffic to kind of see how floor plans would be best utilized. And it just gets to be, it can be too much at some point. And you can lose that touch you talked about, whether it's in the furnishings or it's in the hospitality. Just a personal experience that myself and a lot of our team members found. We looked at the guest's journey, and we said, okay, where is the frustration? A big set of frustrations is check-in. Like, I just got off a long flight. I'm waiting in line for what should be a very simple thing of like, give me a key. Let me get into my room. Cause that's really where I want to be to kind of, you know, get ready for my vacation. So we wanted to automate that and have you do it remotely via text. And the reason we like doing it via text is that's the most native application that your average person is in. You spend the most time on your SMSs. And so, we didn't want to create an app that you have to download and create a login. Those for us, that's all friction. It's unnecessary. And we, we wanted to just make it seamless in the, in the, in the text message. But that being said, I think what we learned is it's kind of a 70-30 thing where 70% of people are fine with that. In fact, they like it. They don't want to talk to somebody. They might talk to you later during their stay, but they really want to get situated. and kind of get into the room, get squared away, and then they want to talk. But there's still a significant percentage, it might be 30, it might be more or less, but it's significant, that just want to meet you and say, hey, Josiah, where should I eat tonight? They want that. And so we have adjusted a little bit to start having what we call a welcome host, whose goal is not so much to check you in. They can do that if you'd like. But it's really to welcome you. It's to give you a free drink. It's to orient you. It's to make you feel kind of like that Airbnb host, even though this applies true in Drift as well, which is less of an Airbnb type hotel, to give you that personal experience of like, there should be at least one person whose name you don't forget when you leave the property. And it mostly should be that person. And then another thing we're doing is we'll roll it out in a few months is more of a self-checking kind of kiosk. So we'll have three, three areas. One would be SMS. Two would be, you know, I didn't read my texts coming in, but I still want to talk to you. So I'll use the kiosk. And then the third would be, I want to, I want to meet somebody in person and just have that conversation.

Josiah: I love it. I was curious about that because I do like the efficiency of the self-check-in option, having the option to talk to someone. But I was also curious about the edge cases. You get reservations where someone just forgets to check their text and they're like, what do I do? But it seems like you've already thought about that and kind of thought how that plays out. I'm curious how you think about people, I guess, in the mix of this. I love what you mentioned that you shouldn't leave the property without having the name of someone. What sort of person are you looking to hire, I guess, into the organization, specifically on property? Who thrives in this sort of modern next-generation environment or environment that you're building?

Philip: Yeah. You know, for us, that person needs to love people, plain and simple. And, and you, I know you've met those people. You probably are one, um, as a podcast host. Um, and there are simply people who derive joy, meaning purpose from making other people happy. As basic as that sounds, it's actually a very special gift. It's a very special gift. And so for us, one structural thing about Team CH is we try to pull the skill sets that might bog that person down off the property and do it remotely, accounting, HR, marketing, sales, or any of that stuff. We pull it off the property, and we want on-property people who love people, period. If you're cleaning the room, if you're serving drinks, you have to love people. But the person who has to love people the most is that welcome host, like that person They need to be gregarious. They could be having the worst day in the world, but they still need to put a smile on your face. Because at the end of the day, we might, as hospitality professionals, our days might be up and down. The day that you meet that guest is their day of trial, and you have to make that happen. So, really, how good or bad our day is going doesn't matter. I mean, it matters. We take care of our employees, but we can't let it be a problem for the guests. And there are people who are willing to put their own personal situation aside to take care of others. And that's really who we want.

Josiah: Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing to experience. That's what I think builds affinity for a hotel in general. All the other things may make a difference, but people are a huge piece of that. I'll include links in the show notes where people can learn more about your various brands and the company and see all the great stuff that you're up to. But is there any special place that you'd point our listeners to learn more about you and your work?

Philip: Yeah, I think I'd like our listeners to keep an eye out. We have some cool announcements coming out soon, which I think they're at least exciting for us. Hopefully, they'll be exciting to the listeners as well.

Josiah: Amazing. Well, and if our listeners also got a little bit of FOMO not being in Santa Barbara, I'll include some photos that I took on LinkedIn. But they do need to stop by, and whether it's Santa Barbara, Nashville, or other locations that you have, they need to experience this for themselves. So, Philip, thank you so much for taking the time. This is a lot of fun. I appreciate you taking some time to share what you're thinking about and what you're doing now.

Philip: Likewise. Thank you, Josiah.