How We're Reinventing Hospitality for New Parents - Jen Darwin, The Village Postnatal Retreat Center [San Francisco Sundays]

Josiah: I love finding people who are providing hospitality in unconventional ways, and this week's episode of San Francisco Sundays, we're going to meet Jen Darwin, founder of The Village Postnatal Retreat Center, the first of its kind in California. It's a place where parents can take a few days after birth to unwind, get pampered, and receive support from professionals. In this episode, you're going to learn how this unique place came to be and what Jen has learned about providing hospitality in this beautiful but challenging stage of life.

Josiah: Jen, thank you for taking time to chat. I came across what you're doing in Bloomberg a couple of days ago. Then it sent me down a rabbit hole. So I started looking and you, so many different national media, local media have written about your work. So I appreciate you making time to share with the Hospitality Daily audience what you're up to, because I'm so fascinated about maybe unconventional approaches of hospitality, unconventional applications of hospitality, especially here in my hometown of San Francisco. So I love that you're here. I love that you're building here. For people who have not come across what you're doing, how would you describe what this is?

Jen: So, a postnatal retreat center is a place where people can go after they've given birth. Maybe they're not quite ready to go home and do this solo yet. They just need a little bit more emotional and kind of hands-on experience. So they come here, they rest, recover. They can leave here feeling more confident and going home and taking care of their babies.

Josiah: It's one of the biggest life moments, right? And so much comes up. I don't have kids, but watching people around me have kids and just such a transformative moment. It's really interesting to think about providing care and support through that whole process. Why support people in this sort of way versus another form of support in this moment?

Jen: So I think just based on my experience, I started out in this industry as a labor and delivery nurse. And when I would go to discharge new parents and even second and third-time parents to go home, they would just be very kind of overwhelmed. First-time parents were scared that they didn't know how to take care of their babies. There was a lot of anxiety. And I just thought there had to be a better way. You know, I couldn't really go home with all these people. So this was my way of bringing them to my home. And it was a way to kind of bridge that gap that they have between leaving the hospital and seeing their provider like a month and a half later. And, you know, our postpartum depression rates here in the United States are not great. Maternal and infant mortality rates are climbing. And I think it has a lot to do with just people not knowing what's normal. So this is kind of our way of helping people understand what's normal and when they should contact their provider.

Josiah: It's amazing. And you have wanted to do this for for some time. I wonder if you could walk through the story of the first iteration of this because you did a bit of a soft launch, right?

Jen: Yes. So originally, way back in 2020, we were set to launch and then the pandemic hit. So we put everything on hold. And it was actually really great because I was able to kind of step back, you know, kind of work on my project a little bit more, raise some more capital. And then in 2022, we decided, all right, we have to do this. So we launched in July of 2023. And I looked around and there was only one other place that had launched prior to us, and they launched in a big luxury hotel. So I thought, okay, well, it's working for them. So let's try that. It wasn't my original vision. My original vision was to launch in like a bed and breakfast or in a boutique style hotel where we could get a little bit more customized. But, you know, I thought maybe people wanted that vacation experience. So we launched in a luxury hotel here in San Francisco for the first six months. It just did not meet my expectations. Well, I wasn't able to customize the rooms. I wanted heated bidet toilet seats because for anybody who's given birth, they understand why that's a necessity. I wanted like rainfall shower heads. I wanted blackout curtains. I wanted to be able to really go in and customize the rooms for postpartum recovery. And we couldn't. Basically, when we got there, it was just a king size bed and one chair in the room. And I couldn't really bring in anything that I wanted to do to kind of make it feel less like a hotel and more like a place where you can just like recover.

Josiah: I wonder if you could speak a little bit more to the guest experience, because you're mentioning very, very specific elements, right? It sounded like you had a lot of clarity. Did you have that all at once? Or were you collecting inspiration as you went?

Jen: I, I think I've been working as a birth worker for 20 years now. And I think it's just mostly the feedback from my, from my clients I worked with over the years, you know, I would go into a home, I remember the first time I walked into one of my clients homes, and they had this heated bidet toilet seat, and the mother was like, this is the most amazing thing. And, you know, just kind of picking up what my clients really enjoyed in their recovery time in their home. and then kind of bringing it all under one roof. So being able to have like massage therapists on hands that specialize in postnatal massage, pelvic floor therapists, lactation consultants, that was another big thing that was really important to my clients. So it was kind of like a collection over the past two decades of all the little things that I saw that they liked, and then just kind of bringing it all together.

Josiah: I mean, hearing you describe this, you're thinking holistically of taking care of people. There's the physical environment, there's the medical or physical needs that a person has going through this. There's the emotional piece that you've talked about, the mental way of navigating that. This show is called Hospitality Daily. I know I look at things with a hospitality lens, but is it a stretch to say that this is very hospitality focused in the way that you've designed this?

Jen: Yeah, no, it's not a stretch at all. I mean, that's our goal is that people come in and they feel like they're comfortable. They feel like they're getting supported. And yeah, I mean, they did just have a baby. So there is some type of, you know, medical stuff that needs to be looked at. We don't do any kind of medical procedures here, because we don't want it to feel like a hospital. If something comes up that is out of normal range, we can we can identify that. And then we refer them back to the hospital. And we've had a few people that actually did have to be readmitted to the hospital based on things that we saw here. But for the most part, it's about resting, it's about recovering. I made it a special point to make sure that all of our beds are like super comfortable. We have blackout curtains, we have, you know, very much like going in and like looking at what's going to be relaxing for them. And we always ask for feedback after, you know, just to see if there's anything we can improve on. So I do feel it's a lot of hospitality.

Josiah: Before we started recording, we were walking around a little bit, and it's amazing from the artwork to a lot of the design elements, how you thought about setting up the space. I wonder if you could speak a bit more to that. What are you especially proud of as you think about its current iteration here?

Jen: Yeah, I mean, for us, it's more about like, empowering people, making them feel empowered, making them feel confident. So you probably saw the big, the two big elephant posters when you came in those those paintings on the wall, because that to me is like majestic and powerful. And then we have a lot of like, as you can tell around me, there's lots of dandelions. Dandelions is our logo and it's because it's a, to me, it's a symbol of something that, you know, some people look at it as a weed, but really this, this flower can grow anywhere and it's so powerful. So that's really our kind of our thought process behind that with our logo. But yeah, just, it's more about like just empowering people and making them feel strong.

Josiah: Well, it's great to hear your backstory because I feel what people are doing is really the sum of what they've done up until that point. And so you're bringing all this experience in the space and interpreting it in a new way. You're having kind of this thing that doesn't exist many places. You're, you're one of the very first in the industry. And what have you learned from the journey so far? I imagine you every day is kind of new, new things you're coming across.

Jen: You know, I feel like I've learned a lot just since we launched. And I learned a lot from our guests, you know, asking them, what was it that you enjoyed the most? What is it that we can do differently? One thing I didn't think of was a lot of the second and third time parents that come here. Because people think, oh, it's just for first time, you know, parents who don't know how to diaper, don't know how to swaddle, don't know how to breastfeed. But the second time parents, they come in, and they are just like, I need to bond with my new baby. You know, I have a toddler at home, I have other kids at home, they are really taking a lot of my attention away from my new baby. So coming here and just bonding one-on-one with their new baby, that was something that has really popped and made a big impression on us. And then we have a lot of parents that check in right after they have their baby, go home for four or five weeks, come back at week five or six. I wasn't expecting that because I think that first week they're just in that place of like, oh my gosh, I need to sleep. I need help. I don't know what's going on. And then they go home. they get that first week of support, they go home, and then they come back. And then it's more of like a spa relaxation, like, okay, we're going to come back, we want to rest, we want massage, we want those facials. And so it's a different experience the second time they come, which I find is really nice, because we already know them, they know us, we're comfortable. And it's really rewarding to see that when they come back the second time.

Josiah: What means you're doing something right to it's like maybe if you get someone who's experienced it, how long do people typically stay here?

Jen: So usually it's about five to six nights. And then we have some people that get here and after the second night, they're like, Hey, can we stay longer? And it's funny, because the people who we typically see wanting to extend is not the person who gave birth, it's the partners. Interesting. Okay. The partners are really, they really get into it. I don't think that, you know, it's, it's something that people don't think about. But during the pregnancy, all of the focus is on the mother, the baby, and the partners kind of off to the side. Once the baby is here, then the partners now it's, you know, now it's, hey, it's our turn, we get to come in now we can change diapers. We can birth the baby, we can feed the baby. So my staff really focuses on supporting the partners and showing them how to do things. We even have this little button that we give the dads that says, sexy dads know how to swaddle, but they have to earn it. They're just giving that up. No, no, they don't. They have to earn it. And we had one dad, he still hadn't quite got it down by the time they were leaving. So I just gave it to his partner and said, Okay, when he gets that swaddle game down, then you can give him this button. And that was really funny. So I think the partners really feel like this is just as much for them as it is the person who gave birth.

Josiah: Well, it's interesting because sometimes I talk to hotels and they're challenged by thinking, how do we engage people for multiple nights? So if someone's staying here four or five, six nights or more, how do you decide what to offer here on the property versus is there anything you do kind of externally in the neighborhood or how do you, I don't know if that question makes sense, but how do you balance that?

Jen: So here, you know, they do get three meals a day, and there's a restaurant on site that cooks and prepares all their meals, we bring it to their room. In between the meals, we set up a whole agenda for them while they're here. They get parent education. We do infant CPR and safety. We do a baby wearing classes, tummy time. And so it's kind of mixed with education, meals, spa treatments. And we try to just spread that out throughout their entire stay. We don't want to throw it all at them in one day. There's also this beautiful outdoor terrace at this location where we're at now. And they can go outside and they can take a meal out there if they want. They can take their baby outside and get some fresh air. So this building, when we moved here in January, this was just the perfect fit. And so there's so much for them to do here. And our staff is always doing lots of education. And of course, we want them to rest as well. So, and Japantown is also really walkable from here. So close, we're in the heart of San Francisco. I know, the Japan Mall is just a couple blocks. And so sometimes our guests will go down there. And it's just really like this, this is a very walkable part of San Francisco. So I think that it's perfect. You know, where we were at before was a little touristy. And there wasn't a lot of walkability. So yeah,

Josiah: And that's what San Francisco does best, right? The vulnerability. I'm curious, it's clear you're listening so closely to your clients. Has there been any sort of recurring themes in the feedback you've noticed people especially appreciate about their stays here?

Jen: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I always jokingly say like, I wish I could take before and after pictures of the parents when they get here. But the before picture would be kind of cruel. Yeah, I just, you know, when they get here, it's it's a lot of just they're overwhelmed. They're, you know, they have some high anxiety. So the common theme that we see when people check out is they just they're rested, they feel more confident, you know, the feedback that we get from our guests is they really felt so supported by my staff. Maybe they weren't sure if they were going to be able to breastfeed, but now they're on a really good, you know, journey with that. So I think the common theme is just that, you know, well, of course, they always say, you know, I'm going to tell every single one of my pregnant friends about this. I love it so much. But yeah, I think the common theme is just that support and feeling empowered. So then that's our goal.

Josiah: One thing I meant to ask earlier, but before we were recording, you're talking about taking care of the kind of mental well-being. I feel like that's so important in general, but especially I imagine in this moment. Can you speak a little bit to how you're helping people navigate that piece of the journey?

Jen: Yeah. So when they check in, one of the first things we do is sit down and we kind of do a little survey that they fill out just about how they're feeling emotionally and what they're looking for from us, because we don't want to just assume that everybody wants the same thing. And we just kind of check in and we check in with both parents, because people think about postpartum depression only affecting the person who gave birth, but it can affect both parents, and they're both going through a huge transition in their life. So here on staff my my staff is straight is. trained on how to identify certain indicators that would show that they maybe are struggling emotionally. We also bring in a family therapist that does a group session and includes both parents. in that as well. It's more of a birth processing session where they can kind of, if they're ready, they can talk through their birth experience and see if there's anything we can do to help them, you know, with that. And then when they check out, we do offer additional resources for them if, you know, if that's something that they need.

Josiah: Interesting. So the way that you're supporting and engaging doesn't necessarily end when a guest checks out. I guess as you look to the months and years ahead, what are you thinking about and most excited about in this area?

Jen: Hmm. I mean, I really think that we're on this turning point in the United States of changing the culture of what postpartum is supposed to look like. Other countries, especially like Korea, everybody's heard about, you know, how they have something like this in other countries. And I kind of feel like in the United States, this has been something that we have overlooked for way too long. So I'm really excited about just seeing a little bit of the culture shift. When I hear people talk about their postpartum experience, and they talk about how horrible it was, or, you know, oh my gosh, it was a nightmare. We didn't sleep, we were exhausted. And it doesn't have to be that way. But for some reason, we've kind of accepted it to be that way. And so I know it's a big thing. But that's my goal is to change the culture in the United States to some, this is something that it's not just that you deserve it, you need it. And making it okay to ask for help, you know, not having to feel like, Oh, I'm not a good mom. I'm not a good dad. I'm not a good parent if I ask for help. I think asking for help makes you a good parent. And that's what we have to shift. So yeah, I know that's a big thing, but that's my goal.

Josiah: Well, I love it. Change happens conversation by conversation. And it also happens when people like you actually build something that creates a space and the conversation moves the culture forward. So thanks so much for taking some time to chat and run through this. And thank you for what you're doing here. Thank you.