White Lotus and the End of Surface-Level Hospitality - Samantha Hardcastle

Josiah: Are you watching White Lotus now? If you're like nearly all of my friends and people I work with, the answer is yes, which is why I wanted to bring back on the show Samantha Hardcastle, founder of The Storied Experience, to talk about what hospitality providers can learn from this show. I've learned so much from Samantha on experience design in travel and hospitality over the years. There's links in the show notes where you can hear some of those past conversations. But in this episode, you're going to hear why stress isn't always what it seems and why relaxation might not always be the right response to the stress that we feel in our lives and maybe in our work. You're going to hear how the emotional complexity that we have as humans shape the way that we travel, the way that we experience hotels, resorts, and we're going to get into how you can meet guests where they actually are. Samantha breaks down how shows like White Lotus can act as mirrors, helping us reimagine the way that we design experiences in hospitality. It's, of course, great entertainment, but it's not just about entertainment. There's an opportunity here for transformation. So, If you want to go beyond just surface level service and use the way that you watch White Lotus as an opportunity to learn how to deliver truly meaningful hospitality, keep listening. I think you're going to love this conversation. Let's get into it.

[intro]

Josiah: Samantha, thank you for taking time to talk. As we're recording this, White Lotus Season 3 is unfolding. It feels like such a phenomenon. Not only people obviously working in hospitality, I feel like all of my friend groups are watching this. Such a big show. I'm curious for you, why do you enjoy watching White Lotus?

Samantha: You know, it's funny. I am not a person that's really into murder mysteries. I'm not into crime shows. For me, it's purely about the industry. You know, I travel. What is it reflecting back to us about how we travel? learning more about like the human behavior elements. I think the show does a really good job of painting a picture of kind of the dark side of humanity that you don't typically get exposed to in a lot of narratives and stories. And they are just going where a lot of movies and shows just won't go. So I think that's really fascinating.

Josiah: It definitely is. I was at an event last week and was talking with a hotelier and he was sharing what you shared. He was like, this is an interesting look. It's dramatized, of course, but a look behind the scenes of what it's like providing hospitality. So our conversation today isn't just going to be a commentary on the show itself. It's going to specifically focus on what hospitality providers can learn from what's happening on the show. I think there's such a big opportunity here. But with that being said, I don't know if you've heard the official White Lotus podcast. It's actually quite good. It's interesting hearing behind the scenes. I'll link in the show notes if people want to just geek out on the show itself. Our conversation is going to be a little bit more about how do you take lessons from the show for hospitality. What prompted us to initially connect here on this, Samantha, I know you're a repeat guest. I'll link in the show notes to past conversations that we've had. Really appreciate your expertise. But what prompted us to connect around this is an email that you sent and we'll link to your email newsletter as well. People should sign up for that. But tell our listeners a little bit about kind of what you shared in that email because it might serve as a good jumping off point.

Samantha: Yeah, well, you know, it's so interesting. I wrote this email before I saw one of the episodes of White Lotus. And spoilers, you know, there might be a few spoilers in here. So if you haven't watched, let's see, was it episode five or six, you know, you might want to tune into this a little later. Essentially, what the email was about is how we use the word stress often to describe what our guests are feeling. When I see people talk about their concept in the hospitality space, it often has to do with relaxation, helping distance a guest from the stresses of their lives. And stress is a really vague word. And the problem is we often use it to just paint a really broad picture of what's going on in people's lives. And what we assume is that the antidote to stress is relaxation. But if you don't peel back the layers of what's underneath the stress, and you're just trying to give people relaxation, you're probably going to be serving an experience and creating experience that isn't really what the guest needs. And later that night, after the email went out, I was watching White Lotus. And at the end of this episode, there's a very, very sad scene where one of the guests is contemplating suicide, and he's written his letter, he has the gun, and he's about to pull the trigger, and his wife comes out, and essentially they have a conversation, and he starts to unload on her, he starts to tell her all the things that are going on in his life, and he realizes that This is a pointless conversation. And he says, you know what, it's just stress. And that is kind of like the magic word to say, oh, OK, it's just stress. Like, I'm just, there's nothing really big going on. It's just stress. And, you know, she says to him, essentially, there's nothing to be stressed about. You're so successful. And, you know, you've accomplished so much in life. And I think this really does paint a really solid picture of what happens when we just assume that people just have stress in their lives and they don't really dig deeper into what is causing that stress. And does a wellness retreat and a wellness destination, is it equipped to handle the complexity of human emotion and the stresses in people's lives that are way more than just being overwhelmed or not having enough hours in the day? That is your almost true definition of what people think about when they think of stress. But it's not taking into a fact that there are just a million different things that can be perceived as stress, which are really actually sadness, anger, feeling powerless, feeling lonely, feeling fearful, feeling envious, you know, the complex range of human emotion. And that is what White Lotus does such a good job of painting a picture of, is just the massive umbrella of complex emotions that are underneath this umbrella of stress.

Josiah: And I think it shows the complexity and potentially the beauty of the hospitality industry, right? Because obviously these destinations are beautiful, the properties are beautiful, but I think there's something compelling there. And for people that don't know the hospitality world very well, this might open the eyes of a lot of people to all the dynamics at play, which is a lot of opportunity. But I think I want to go back to what you mentioned about stress and even just that line from the character about, you know, you're so successful. These two things are interesting because I I think many hotels and resorts have tried to provide an escape for people for a while I've heard over the last year or two Interesting conversation around being a little more dynamic and helping people achieve a goal for their their stay there So that's a little more attentive to where people are but it's still this sort of success outcome driven mentality, which is which I find fascinating and And so that's why I always enjoy our conversations. You're going a level deeper, right? How do you create this environment? And I wonder if we could speak a little bit more about that for our listeners. How can we not only meet people where they're at, but help them get where they need to go?

Samantha: Absolutely. I think it starts with acknowledging just that stress is complex. And, you know, White Lotus gives us so many different archetypes of problems in this world, right? Like you have jealousy, you have greed, you have power, privilege, masculinity, femininity, ambition, like all these different things that when they present themselves in our lives create a lot of inner turmoil. And If you aren't crystal clear on what the problem is, then the solution that you try to create isn't going to be what people need. So, for example, if you assume that people are stressed, but they're really angry or feeling powerless, then you're going to create a relaxing experience because relaxation is, again, like what you might believe to be the anecdote to stress, but relaxation isn't what someone who's angry needs. Relaxation is not what someone who is feeling powerless needs. they need to either feel inspired, they need to feel like they can take action. And what are those like catalyzing experiences that you can create? Like, how do you create an experience that gives someone a sense of power? I mean, I know that might feel like hard to translate, but like, even just helping someone accomplish something can give them a sense of power back. Like, to give you a personal example, I just started a new a wheel pottery workshop. It's a six week long program in town and it is completely new to me. And it's really challenging me to create something that I've never done before. And even when I accomplish even just the smallest of things, even though it doesn't, it will never look as good as the woman who's teaching, you know, her creations, it's, it starts to make me feel like I'm accomplishing something. So it's like, how do you create experiences that are at the emotional core and root what you're looking to accomplish? You know, their feeling of powerless, their feeling of anger might be totally unrelated, but skills are transferable. So when you teach someone one thing in life, if you teach them how to be you know, one way in a completely different sector of their life, those skills actually are, can be incredibly powerful when you learn to embrace them in other areas of your life. So you can find a way to put a spin on whatever it is that you want to help them with and do so in like a more hospitality friendly way. Like, I'm not saying you need to go out and like offer them anger management classes. It's kind of like what I'm trying to get at.

Josiah: Might be applicable in some cases, though. I find what you're saying really interesting because I've been in places, and I imagine many of our listeners have, where it's beautiful and it's great service, but mentally you're somewhere else. You're not in a good place. And what you're describing is a way to help people through that. I'm thinking of the episode one of season three, where there's this scene where they're taking away their devices. There's a couple hospitality experiences around the world that do something like this. So maybe that is a step, but I'm hearing it's not necessarily the solution for everything. I think what I'm hearing from you is this is bigger and maybe more important than just a digital detox, right? You take away all the devices that isn't going to necessarily put you in a good headspace and get you to a good place.

Samantha: Yeah. I mean, I think obviously this show takes a lot of creative license to create these extreme feeling characters and there's A lot of them just don't belong at that resort. I think we can all acknowledge that. These characters were kind of put there not doing their research, not knowing what they were getting into. But not everyone is at a place in their healing journey where they're ready for that. And so it's like, as you said before, how do you meet someone at the point of their journey? When I look at the characters and I look at what they're all trying to escape something, but they've brought their exact old behaviors that they have at home that the behaviors that they've built over the last 30, 40, 50 years, however old they are. And so you don't change the second that you walk through a resort stores. And I love this quote from the monk who they sit with at some point, and he says, you cannot outrun pain. And yet that is what our industry has kind of been built on is this promise of escapism. And, you know, when you come here, all your problems disappear. But like, They don't really, because they're just waiting for you back at home. So there's this desire to distance themselves from the pain. And wellness tourism is projected to be over a trillion dollars globally, which is insane. It shows us that there is this incredible desire for healing, and yet this show is a perfect example of what happens. Well, not perfect example. I don't want to say perfect example, but like it is, this happens, you know, people, they go to wellness retreats, they go to places with a lot of baggage, and five days without a phone and some meditations and yoga isn't enough to put them on a new path, a new trajectory. And like, even I think Jacqueline at one point says, like, we need to go out and have fun. Yoga, we can do that at home, right? Like, we can do that at home. And she's right. I mean, when I heard her say that, I was like, thank you for, you know, I'm not saying that yoga doesn't belong on your programming. I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is, A lot of times it's just not the right experience for someone who's dealing with a million things, a million problems. Yoga isn't going to make those problems disappear.

Josiah: No, it won't. It won't. And I think before we start recording, you mentioned something to the effect of stories are mirrors, and they're not just here to entertain us. And I love that. And I wonder if you could speak a little bit more to that, kind of the opportunity here, I guess, as people, but also as hospitality providers, watching something like White Lotus, watching these storylines unfold, how we should interact with that.

Samantha: Yes. So if you're watching this show just to find out who murdered, you know, whoever, like, I think you're kind of missing the point. This is a show that is hopefully training you to be incredibly empathetic and emotionally intelligent. If you're watching this and you're thinking, oh, no, these are just extreme characters. These people don't exist in real life. you're wrong because it is showing us the complexity of human nature. And like we all have the, it's the shadow side of humanity. We all have all of these parts within us. And you know, sometimes it happens behind closed doors. Sometimes you get a narcissist who's, you have to work with every day, right? Like sometimes those things like are, are very hidden and sometimes they're just, in the cultural zeitgeist. Stories are mirrors. A good exercise would be to Look at each character. Which ones do you want to help the most? What is wrong with them, essentially? What is the problem in their lives? If you were to pick just two or three, you were like, these characters really resonate with me. These are the characters, the archetypes that I would love to help. Again, it's not about becoming a self-help destination. It's not about creating a destination that is out to save everyone. Because it's not your job to save everyone. It's your job, though, if you're promising like a… Obviously, it depends on what you're promising. If your promise is just like a few days of relaxation and you're happy just maintaining that status quo, that's fine. But know that guests can pretty much go anywhere and get that experience. I could block out my calendar and lay in bed all weekend and not move a muscle and I don't have to pay a thing. It doesn't cost me $600 a night to just not move and read a book. So, you know, people, when they're paying for these luxury experiences, when they're paying multiple thousand dollars for multiple days, what they're really hoping is to get something out of it. And the nature and the beauty is really just the background for what happens in that. You know, I was just talking to my friends who She's in Antigua, which is a very popular island tourist destination. And, you know, she was out at this popular place to watch the sunset. And she was looking around at all the tourists and she said everyone just looked so sad and miserable. And I'm like, that's not how people should feel on vacation. And it's just like, I think that we're reaching a point where we're realizing that the sightseeing and the beautiful environment isn't really enough. It will sell people, it will get people there, but will it have an emotional impact? And if it doesn't, Sure, you might have made a sale, but are you fulfilled, first of all? Do you feel like you've created something that is meaningful in your life? Maybe or maybe not. But also, you know, there's just this deeper opportunity to just evolve hospitality to a new height that actually does support people in their growth. And if I just look at the characters now and I'm like, who out of all these people would I want to help the most? I think that's a really fun question to play around with because I'm sure you can, when you start to peel back the layers, you can start to see what is at the core of their distress and then work your way backwards. That's what we do in my process is we start with where they're at and we work backwards to say, okay, How do we get them even just a few steps away from this feeling of whatever, this feeling of turmoil? How do we start to distance people from that through experiences, through whatever it is, moments, a journey? And sometimes all it takes is a perspective shift. Sometimes people just need to finally see things in a new light or finally just realize that one thing isn't the way they've always thought. Like, we all tell ourselves stories and narratives. That's why stories are such powerful healers, because a new story can help you replace an old story that's not serving you.

Josiah: I love it. I will include some links in the show notes because I love how you help hospitality providers go through this journey of thinking about how do you provide hospitality that helps people in that moment. Like you say, you can promise all these things, maybe get someone to book a trip to stay at your place. If you can't deliver, you kind of fail on the mission of hospitality. Also from a business perspective, you want people having such a good time, they're coming back, they're telling their friends. So there's both kind of an opportunity here on a fundamental level and on a business level. I'll include links to the show notes for people that are just listening to the audio. Samantha, where would you point people to learn more about you and your work?

Samantha: Yeah, thestoryexperience.com is always the best place. We have a lot of resources, and it's always my goal to help people understand these concepts, because they're complex. We don't grow up, especially here in the States, learning about the complexities of human emotion. There's no emotional intelligence 101 that you get exposed to in second grade. So I think we all are in this process of relearning. humanity and human behavior. And until you really understand and know that, you know, you're just kind of guessing and making assumptions. So.

Josiah: Amazing. Thanks for taking time to walk through this with us and taking time to chat today.

Samantha: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Josiah.