Masterclass: How To Hire Great People, Faster - Adam Robinson, Hireology [Sponsor Bonus]

Josiah: Are you struggling to attract and retain top talent? Do you find the hiring process is slow and time-consuming, hurting your ability to hire good people, causing burnout among the people you do have, and putting your business at a disadvantage? To help us address these challenges that, unfortunately, I'm finding all too common out there in the market today, I'm delighted to have Adam Robinson, CEO of Hireology, joining us today. Adam has built a career in a business on revolutionizing the hiring process, and in this episode he shares his expertise on transforming recruiting from an administrative task into a strategic function that takes a mindset that you may not have thought of yet but is crucially important. He discusses what it takes to attract top talent today and you're going to learn practical tips on how to create compelling job descriptions, how to respond faster to applications you get from those job listings, and how to use technology to streamline every stage of your hiring process. Stay tuned as Adam provides valuable insights and actionable strategies to help you build a winning team in today's challenging market and turn your hiring process into a competitive advantage.

Josiah: Adam, I have been looking forward to this conversation very much because I appreciate the support that Hierology has had for Hospitality Daily over the last couple of years. And, you know, I'm talking to so many people these days that have so many challenges around people, around how do we attract talented people? How do we make sure it's a good onboarding experience? How do we get the right people? How do I keep the right people? It's all about people, it seems. And you have built a career, you've built a business on this. I've been looking forward to this. Maybe as an opening question, I would love to hear you describe in your words what Hireology does because I want to set the stage, and we're going to cover a lot in our conversation. But just to give people a bit of context, how would you describe what you do, what you sell, how you're helping hotels today?

Adam: Yeah, thanks for having me here today. Yeah, Hireology is a hiring technology platform. So, we provide hoteliers and their management teams with everything they need to be great at marketing opportunities and running a hiring process to build the staff they need at the best possible level, right? So, we provide the technology from hosting their career site through to the applicant tracking system, everything they need from interview guides, the integrated background checks and skills tests or job fit analysis, onboarding, automated reference checks, and everything in between to help them do the things they need to do to win in a market that is this tough to win in. And so, as we'll probably discuss, It's all about moving with intention, moving faster, differentiating yourself in the market, and having a process that scales and works repeatedly. Whether you have one hotel or 500 hotels that you're managing, there are some nuances to this that are table stakes in this market. And we help our customers get there very quickly with our technology.

Josiah: Well, the way that you help your customers get there seems to be something that they very much value. If I look at online software review sites, Hireology is at the top there. You're helping so many hotels and hotel companies across the country and around the world. And so I think we're gonna have a lot to get into from your experience, from what you're seeing in the market. I wonder if we could talk a little bit about just your personal journey into the work that you do today. Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to co-found and now become CEO of Hireology.

Adam: Yeah. Try and keep this brief. I mean, I was going to teach high school history. That's when I went to college, and ultimately, teaching jobs were tough to find. This was in the late nineties. Of course, web 1.0, introduction of the commercial internet was fun to be entering the workforce during that time. And I took a placeholder job. A friend of mine worked at one of the largest private national staffing companies in the US, and I took that job thinking I was going to work there while I was looking for teaching gigs. I loved the staffing business. Just loved it. Loved the people aspect of it. I loved the mission of helping folks connect with employment that was meaningful. I mean, I just really liked all of that. So, I stayed with that for a couple of years, and then I went to work for what was then a startup in Chicago that went public eventually called Click Commerce. Click Commerce help franchise-type businesses connect with their brands or manufacturers, you know, if they were in a dealer network. And, you know, take them off the fax machine and put them on the internet for communicating. So you think, you know, I'm a Marriott or Hilton or Hyatt franchise flag hotel. I have to send information to corporate, report on sales figures or, you know, subscribe to marketing programs or do the things that you do when you work with a brand and a franchise model. And so we would go in. you know, around the world and install software pre-cloud, right? So we'd bring servers, we'd install them in some properties and enable them to transmit this information digitally instead of over a fax machine. And it drove huge efficiencies and got folks online in terms of operations. And it was great. My biggest issue as the person responsible for making sure all these installations were going well was the turnover rate in our customer base was so high which is still the case today, right? The turnover rate at the frontline manager tier in the hotel industry at that time was so high. We spent all our time retraining customers on how to use the Internet Explorer and stuff like that, like just basic stuff. And I thought, you know, my experience in the staffing industry and working with all these franchise type businesses, There's an opportunity here to help them solve this problem. I just perceived this to be such an issue. I saw how disruptive it was. So, I started a business in the mid-2000s that was a recruitment outsourcing company. So, we would do the recruiting at scale for these large platform management companies. And, you know, I would describe it as we would get hired to go in and scale up a mess. You know, we would get into these companies, there'd be 400-500 open job recs they're trying to fill across, you know, 15 different states. And our team of recruiters would get in and screen applicants and send them over. And they would just sit there for weeks or months and not get called and not get followed up on. And then, of course, they'd follow up. The person's not available anymore, and this would happen over a quarter or two, and then I'd get a call from the CFO of a hotel, third party company, or the owner and say, this isn't working. And I would say, well, I agree with you, but the reason you think it's not working isn't the reason you think it's not working. You have no internal process to make sure you're good at this. And, you know, we provide some coaching or consulting and, you know, that executive would say, that was really helpful. I mean, you're still fired but thank you for the help. And I was like, okay, this isn't working. So, I built a system that we would give to our customers that they could follow. It was a process they could follow step-by-step, the interview guides, scoring, you know, an algorithm, if you will, to follow this process. Just your manager's got an interview, hand them the stack. Just go through it. Trust me, you're going to be better off." And our customers loved it. In fact, they started asking me if they could buy that system. And I said no for years. And then, in 2008, the financial crisis made the recruiting industry a whole lot of fun the hotel industry a whole lot of fun. So, everybody's having a lot of fun for about a year. And what became clear as we were coming out of the financial crisis, unemployment was at 16% and then employment went vertical in 2010 and 2011 as everyone kind of got back to business. And the problem was now they had 500 job applicants for every one open job. It just got bananas. I decided to sell the service business. I sold the service, the recruiting service business, but I kept the technology that powered that system, and I made the decision to commercialize it. That's where Hireology came from. So, prior to starting the company, the system was in use for eight years as an internal tool. We used to do this at scale with hoteliers, and we commercialized it and launched it. The company launched in 2010. The software was launched in 2012. And we've been at it ever since. I mean, targeting the kinds of employers that I've worked with my whole career. You've got lots of locations that don't talk to each other with different management teams that are different legal entities and different brands owned by a family or managed by a third party operating company. And all of the mess that happens when you've got a small team trying to coordinate hiring and onboarding activities at 15, 50, 500 properties without systems that talk to each other, I mean, it's a mess. And that's the problem we get excited about solving. Anyway, that's how we got into this business. Today, we serve close to 10,000 individual locations operated by, I would say, somewhere in the neighborhood of about 18 or 1900 holding companies. And so we've been having fun. 

Josiah: Thanks for the backstory. It's interesting to hear that history because it seems that depending on the economic cycle or what is going on in the world, there's always ups and downs. It does feel over the past couple of years that hiring people, hiring talented people, and keeping them on the teams has been especially hard. I'm curious for you, though, you have a really interesting perspective into the industry. If you could speak a little bit to what's going on in the market now with regards to employment in hospitality and hiring, you know, kind of any data points or observations that you have on what's happening.

Adam: Yeah, it is harder than it's ever been to find the people we need to stay staffed at the property level. We are fighting in the United States against a demographic trough that you can't just address that issue, that this is a birth rate issue. You know, starting with the millennial generation, what we saw is that the average age of first-time parents has shifted out about 10 years. And that happened over the early 2000s and is getting worse. And that means every year for the past five years, we've seen fewer entry-level people entering the workforce year over year. So, fewer and fewer people are entering the entry, 18 to 25-year-old first-time job seekers. It just means we're fishing from a smaller pond. Conversely, what's happened is the demand for the types of folks that we hire has never been higher than right now, and this is evidenced by the fun fact that over the last 12 months, 460,000 of the jobs created in the United States were in the hotel and hospitality industry. I mean, every month in the report, you just see hotels and hospitality are in the top three, and it's been that way every month for the last year plus. And so, here we have an industry restaffing from COVID, and we're all targeting a labor pool that's shrunk where everyone else in the US employer market is also trying to hire the same people. So, we're not even just competing with other hotels. We're competing with every service business in the United States. We're competing with gig work, and I can get on my phone without answering to anybody. We're dealing with Amazon warehouse hiring. It's just the competition is so fierce. It is a zero-sum game right now. And if people want to know, is that going to get any better? I'd cheerfully say, no, never. It will never get any better, not in our lifetime and career. I mean, the demographics suggest it will be this hard forever. So, if you accept that as a first principle, this is going to be the way it is, that leads you to, I hope, think differently about the problem. Okay, so what are we going to do in a zero-sum game to differentiate ourself? It turns out there's some things you can do, which we can talk about, but that's the state of things. We've got two open jobs in this industry for everybody looking. If everybody looking for work today got a job, we'd have 50% of the jobs still unfilled. That's where we are. It's just it requires a strategic and thoughtful approach to solving the problem.

Josiah: Thank you for sharing that market data. I actually want to ask you for a little bit more data because I think this is something that you do really well at Hierology in terms of looking at kind of the market quantifying some of this stuff. You kind of talk about it being a bit of a zero-sum game in the sense of some of the demographic trends that are happening here. But I wonder if you could share a little bit more data around what you have seen as being effective in attracting high-quality candidates, because it's not just about getting a person in a role, right? You want high-quality people, right? It's hospitality; it comes down to the quality of the people, their aptitude, or at least their willingness to learn, right? So do you have data about what you're seeing in terms of what's working in the sense of attracting these talented candidates?

Adam: Absolutely. And before you get into the data, I want to just talk about the recruiting philosophy. Number one, the biggest problem I see or mistake, if you will, that most hotel management companies or operators make when it comes to recruiting is they treat it as an administrative process. Recruiting is not an administrative process. Payroll is an administrative process. I've got to cut checks or get my direct deposits out. They got to be right. I got to manage benefits. I've got to do all the HR things. Recruiting is selling. It's not administration. Recruiting is a sales and marketing function at its core. And if you want to be great at recruiting, you have to think about it as a sales function. The question then is, all right, what are we selling? Well, we're selling jobs. You have to think about this philosophy like I'm in sales. and I'm selling a product. So, think about the job as a product. I am marketing and selling a product to the labor force, and I'm having a hard time doing that. Why is that? Do I understand the product that this audience wants to buy from me? So, if I'm selling a job, is the product something people want to buy? And so, we dug into that, and what we found through our applicant surveys we do twice a year, we have found that the single most important feature of this product, we call a job, it's flexibility. So if I'm going to market a product that is a job, and I want it to stand out, the most important thing I have to be focused on is flexibility. That's what the market says is the thing that would get them to pick your product over that other person's product. And what that really means in terms of our industry is schedule flexibility. If I come to work for you, are you willing to meet me where I am in my life? and afford me the flexibility to handle the things that come up day to day. Sick kids, XYZ pops up, and I've got to change a shift. Do you have the policies in place and is management supportive of flexible work arrangements? We're not working from home in this industry. I mean, that's obvious. We don't have remote work in our industry. That's impossible. However, we can be flexible. And it's the number one thing that attracts people to apply for positions are mentions of schedule flexibility. And it's the thing that keeps people retained if you actually deliver on that flexible promise. That's number one. And then a couple of other features that matter, second is career path. If I come to work for you, can your organization tell me what my life might look like 12, 18, or 24 months from now? Not over the course of a 30 or 40 year career, but literally, if I come to work for you, is it more than a paycheck? Is there a path to something bigger than what I'd be doing on day one? I want to understand that you're supportive of my growth professionally and personally. And it needs to show up in your recruitment marketing. And then third is a culture that fits me. And that's a little soft or fluffy, but it essentially comes down to this. Does my manager and my team have my best interests in mind? Do I feel like I'm working for someone who cares about me? And do I work with individuals who are supportive and we're all kind of working toward the same thing? So as a recap, I'm marketing a product. There are three features that a product needs to have in order to sell to the types of people that are going to buy this product: schedule flexibility, career path, and supportive culture. And if I can market, I mean, really market those three things, I will have a leg up, demonstrably, empirically true. I will have better conversion rates of people hitting my career site and applying for the job. More people will stick with the interview. More people will accept the offer. And there's ways which we can discuss about how to make sure that funnel moves faster. But if I don't have a product that sells, it's just going to continue to be flinging dollars at job board ads and hoping people apply. There's a better way to do it.

Josiah: Well, it starts from the point of view that you have. So, thank you for that framing. I think the framing of viewing this as a sales and marketing exercise is useful because almost every company or every hotel has these functions, right? You know, kind of how this works and how you kind of operate this way. I think if you kind of take that recruiting as a sales and marketing activity. In sales, it's about where you're showing up. In marketing, it's the channels that you're using. And I wonder if we could talk a little bit about channels or exactly kind of how you go about, you kind of framed opportunities up as you've described, but, you know, kind of where do you go then? How do you get the message out there to people who could be a good fit for the organization?

Adam: Yeah, it's interesting. The most effective channel we know from our research is employee referrals. Number one is employee referrals. Your best employees are your best recruiters. In fact, what we find is that when it comes to applicant quality, our hotel HR survey respondents said referrals are the absolute best source of quality and best source of quality hires. Most organizations have some kind of a referral program. You know, 99% of those programs are talked about, they're hard to use, they're not marketed, right? So it's like if I have to rely on someone who's applying for a job to tell me that Adam was my referrer and then Adam comes by the payroll office or trying to say, hey, Bob has been working here three months, where's my check or let me check. It's just not a fun process. Most hotels, first thing we start talking to them about is, how do we move this to technology so that it makes it really easy for people to bring their network into your orbit that you can have these conversations, right? Referrals number one, not surprisingly, the second most important channel are paid job boards. 25% report referrals as number one, 19% report job boards as number one. So, referrals are very surgical and targeted; let me get at my network's type of approach in marketing. Job boards, we're going wide. We're going to put some dollars up against an ad. We hope we get a funnel and that all of those things are important.

Josiah: Excellent. I wonder if we could speak a little bit about designing an effective job description, because I see a lot out there that either look the same or there's just not enough detail to make it compelling. And I keep coming back to what you said about looking at this as a sales or marketing exercise. To do that, you got to be persuasive, right? But you also have to be specific around the benefits for someone. So I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit around what does it take to create an effective, compelling job description?

Adam: It starts from a position of we are creating marketing copy. I mean, you have to be compliant with state and federal labor regs around how you describe the requirements of the role, but that's certainly not where I would start. If I'm marketing a product, and I know the three things that are the most important things of this product, features, that is, I'm going to start talking about those things in order of importance to my audience. I've done the research. So I would start with language that says, listen, if you've been looking for flexible scheduling and work arrangements, a career path, and a culture that's supportive of your personal and professional growth, we'd love to talk to you. You just grab them right from the start. The job description's got to start with that kind of language. And then I'm going to talk about what that means. What does flexibility mean to ABC Hotel Management Company? Here's the career path and some examples. You want to click to learn more from these three testimonials we've shot. Do the stuff with iPhones. Put it up on your website. Here's Josiah talking about how he started as a night auditor and now is a general manager of a hotel eight years later, and why he's so glad he joined. And then supportive culture. Real pictures and testimonials and descriptions of the values. And after that, it's like, oh, by the way, you're looking at a front desk associate role, and here's what that is, and here's what that does. But if you do it the right way, by the time they get to the actual job description, they're pretty excited about learning more about you as an employer. And so, it almost doesn't matter from a marketing standpoint what the actual duties are. I'm trying to get someone excited in my culture. I often describe this process as not unlike a bar magnet. So, culture done right attracts the right people and repels the wrong people. What you don't want to do is spend a lot of time talking to folks who aren't a great fit. They may be able to do the job, but it's not a fit for the way you do the job. Culture done right will attract and repel like a bar magnet, and that's supposed to happen. So, if you're really nailing this, 90% of folks who look at what you're doing might say, yeah, it's not really for me. they're going to kick the door down to try to get that interview. They're going to be personally invested in this process. So, the job description's got to start from that standpoint and then be really descriptive about what the role is. But I always recommend the copy is in service of describing flexibility, really going into detail on the career path. and really going deep on culture. If you do those three things, you're going to have far better conversion rates on the jobs you post. You just will. Because not everyone, I mean, actually very few people take the time to put that kind of thought into it on the front end, and that little bit of thinking really goes a long way.

Josiah: Yeah, and you talked about conversion rates, and I feel like that for me, I mean, in marketing, you think about kind of hotel marketing or any sort of marketing, it's all about conversion rates. Same thing in sales, right? It's like how do you go from a prospect to a closed deal, right? It's all about conversion rates. I used to work in sales, and I remember my boss telling me around kind of just like speed or lack thereof, you know, kills all deals, right? And so there's something about the speed and the timing around I imagine if you're approaching this from like a sales and marketing mentality, that speed is really important. I don't know if you have thoughts around that, around I guess how our listeners should be thinking about what are expectations that applicants have around how this process looks and how can they be relevant and engaging in the process.

Adam: It's such a good point. It's so true. In fact, other than getting the marketing mentality right about this. Then you got to move to the sales process, right? We're bringing someone through, you know, number one, your average job seeker where they're looking for work, applying to 15 or more open positions at a time. So you have to be better than 14 other employers when you're out there in the market. And the one thing you can do is move faster. That is the most impactful change you can make. The average review time for a resume submitted for a hotel position by the manager is five days, sometimes 14. Wow. And I asked GMs the question, how many banquets would you sell? How many weddings would you book? If you took five days to get back to the sales lead, the correct answer is zero. I mean, you would never stand for it. You would not run a sales operation that way. Lead comes in and you get back to it next Monday. It doesn't work. But that's how we run our hiring process. Someone sends us an application, and we will get around to it when we can. 72%, something in that neighborhood, it's kind of been the historical mean of anyone hired on our platform over the last 14 years is someone whose resume was reviewed and responded to within 24 hours. And 90%, maybe a little north of that, that's true for folks within a 72-hour window. So said differently, if you're not getting back to people within three days, you've lost 90% of the market. Furthermore, in our last applicant survey, what we found was 67% of job seekers accept the first job that's offered to them that meets their needs. So I have two identical employers who are both great at selling flexibility, culture, and career path. One of them gets the offer to me first, two-thirds of the time they get me. So literally, if I'm not getting back to you within a day, I've lost 70-plus percent of the market. And then if I'm not the first offer, I've lost another 66% of the remainder. And we lament that recruiting is a challenge, but we're not looking at why we're having the challenge. We're looking at, well, I'm not getting enough applicants. Well, what do you do with the applicants that you get? Because when we dig in, what we find is you realize you've got 400 people sitting in whatever recruiting tech you're using that no one's contacted. You don't have a recruiting problem. You have a process issue. You've got a sales process problem. And that's what we help diagnose and largely automate just to make sure we're getting back to people quickly because speed is the number one lever you have to pull. You just go faster. And we would even recommend, keep your eyes on this and hold your GMs accountable for how quickly they and their staff are opening applications and reviewing them and scheduling interviews. If you get that process down to three days or less, and build your process around getting to an offer quickly, you're going to win. You just will because no one else is that good. If you can be that good in a zero-sum game where there's two jobs for every one person winning, I mean, that's what it takes to win in this market.

Josiah: I'd love if we could, Adam, for you to speak a little bit to the opportunity that you see for technology. And it might seem self-serving in the sense that you have a technology company, but at the same time, as you described at the beginning of our conversation, you built a staffing business, you were hiring, and then you built technology, not necessarily to sell it, right? You built this to help yourself. So it seemed that even 15, 20 years ago, you were kind of seeing the power of technology and what it could hold. So I wonder if you could share with our listeners kind of just broadly, what is the opportunity for technology? But then also technology today, kind of a two-part question, because technology today is accelerating, it feels like, so quickly. But maybe let's start at the high level. Again, you were in a different business. You didn't start out building a tech company, but what did you see then that might be still relevant now with regards to technology to making this all better?

Adam: You know, I've said this about technology forever. I mean, technology by itself solves zero problems. If you think you could just buy software from us or anyone else and put it in, it's just not going to work. You've got to set an intention to do this differently, right? So, technology without intention and focus from the top of the management team is going to fail. And so, we're very careful about letting people buy our platform who are very clearly thinking it's going to be a better job board. Like, this is not what we're doing here. What we're trying to do is help you build a better process for winning in the hiring space. and that involves your intention. first; then you can talk about tech. And again, the way we think about it is if we can send that banquet sales manager or that general manager assistant GM home 30 minutes earlier because we saved them time, We're winning. That's it. Just let them get to their kid's soccer game on time. If we can save an hour a day for every manager, dealing with a stack of resumes or trying to run interviews, that is winning for us. So what can tech do? Tech can remove or, at a minimum, compress all the administrative work. Because recruiting and hiring is administrative, heavy process, heavy stuff. But technology can do most of that for you. So why am I spending all my time going back and forth with candidates scheduling interviews on email? Why am I even emailing anyone, frankly? Email for jobs has about a 30% open rate, but text messages that are employment-related have a 95% review rate within an hour of being sent. So technology, let's move to text. Let's move to SMS. Let's work with an FCC-compliant platform that allows you to do this. You have to do this with your personal phone. So, let's get the communication channel right. Let's automate interview scheduling. Let's let the candidates digitally onboard themselves. Let them fill out all the tax and I-9 forms and do we verify and jump through all the hoops to get on the benefits plan digitally before they show up on day one. Let's leverage artificial intelligence to do things for us, like make our job descriptions better, like marketing copy. We've got tools in our product that allow you to say, look, I want a boilerplate intro for this job that focuses on schedule flexibility, career path, and a supportive culture. And just let it do a lot of that work for you and you tweak it and make it your own. That's the power of tech. and what it can do to help you speed this process up. If you can take an hour away from administrative work and do something more productive with it, ideally spend more time vetting candidates with a human touch. Put that time into FaceTime. You're going to be better off. That's how we think about our role in making this better.

Josiah: That's amazing, Adam. I was listening to a webinar you did a couple of months ago around what does it take to hire Gen Z. And you talked a little bit more about the importance of text messaging, among other things, and just the importance of staying relevant. What are people actually using versus kind of what I'm comfortable using or what I have used in the past, right? Being relevant. comes back to that sales and marketing mentality, right? How do you engage people on their terms in a sense? I'll actually link to that in the show notes as well. But I guess for our listeners that are listening to this, maybe they'll say, hey, you know, this all sounds really good. I wonder if we could kind of close with some action items and then maybe, you know, where they could go to learn more. You and your teams have put together a lot of resources, but maybe kind of some action items or takeaways that you'd like to leave people with that they can consider after they've listened to this conversation and taken to their businesses.

Adam: Yeah, I guess I have a homework assignment for anyone listening here. I want you to, at the conclusion of listening to this podcast, I want you to get out your phone and I want you to try to apply to a job at your own hotel. And I want you to note the experience. I want you to first think, is this an easy process? Because 75% of job applicants are coming off a phone in this market. So, secret shop yourself, audit yourself, apply to a job at your own hotel and note how hard it is. Do I have to retype my job experience with my thumbs on 50 fields on my phone? Do I have to create a login to apply for a job here? That kind of stuff is happening at 50% of hotel career sites today. And the reason is, it's a good one. When they bought the payroll system five or 10 years ago, if I created a record on the front end, it was easy to create the employee record if I hired it. But that doesn't serve them. That serves your payroll clerk. Like, that's helpful for the payroll team. That's not helpful for the applicant. I mean, who wants to create an account to shop for a hotel room? No one's going to do that. That's not what consumers want. Get out your phone, apply to a job on your own site, and take notes. What can we do to make this better? That will spur lots of thinking. Audit your job descriptions. Are these compelling? Am I talking about the things that matter? Is this a product people want to buy? Just put yourself in the shoes of the job seeker. So I'm going to audit the application process, I'm going to look at my marketing copy, and I'm just going to say, I think we could do better than this. And then the third thing I would do, is just start to understand, how long does it take us to get back to someone when they apply? Start asking those questions. Someone's got to know. And if no one knows, that's step one. Start to time-clock yourself. Track it. And if you can't track it, or you don't have the tech in place, or you're not quite sure how to take this on as a management team, that's where we could be helpful. And to find out more, higherology.com is a great place to go, but that's where I'd start. Start by forming your own opinion about whether it's working or not, and if it's working, congratulations. That's pretty awesome. And if there's room for improvement, we'd love to talk to you.

Josiah: Amazing. Hierology.com. You have a lot of guides and a blog with a lot of fantastic articles. You can even get a virtual tour of your platform. If you're interested or reach out to the team, you can email info at hierology.com. Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to walk through this. Everything from the mindset, the mentality, how we should be thinking about this today, what's going on in the world. giving us some really practical steps for our listeners to take into their businesses to get better at attracting very talented people who are going to help them provide that great hospitality that's going to help their business thrive. I've learned a lot, Adam, so thank you so much for taking the time.

Adam: Yeah, it's been fun. Thanks for having me on.