The Story Behind Hospitality Daily (Josiah Mackenzie, interviewed by Steve Turk)

Today we're flipping the microphone around. My friend, Steve Turk, recently invited me to his excellent podcast, The Hospitality Mentor, to talk about what I've learned along my career so far, why I started Hospitality Daily and the opportunities that I see for all of us ahead. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

What was your very first job in Hospitality?

My very first job in Hospitality was a small property on the California coast just south of San Francisco. It was a property that was so small it was actually part of the hostelling international system but it was a unique property because it was an old lighthouse and so they had a couple of rooms that were typical hostel bunks and then they had a couple of rooms that were private cabins, but it was so small there's typically only one person that was working there at a time, so working there included everything from cleaning the rooms, changing the linens to welcoming guests, to social media was just starting to take off at that point, so I think I did a couple of early tweets. So it was definitely. I got exposure to the amount of work that's involved in that, the fun, the meaning. I met people from all over the world. It was a really rewarding experience and it also taught me a lot about how to interact with people, how to listen, how to make them feel special, how to play a role in helping them enjoy their time in the area. So I just had a blast and I think after that experience I was hooked and haven't stopped since then.

So how did that come up? That's a very unique place to start working. Was it someone you knew or you just like build a job at? How did that start for you?

So I fell in love with hostels. Actually, when I was studying abroad, I studied in Dublin and it was the headquarters of Ryanair budget airline, where for about five euros you could fly. It seemed like anywhere in Europe, which was what made every weekend really interesting, because it was like, do I go out and have a slice of pizza or do I fly to Portugal? And so definitely did not have a lot of money but for a couple of bucks being able to fly anywhere, and then I would stay at hostels. And I think I was studying abroad with a group of people, but I ended up traveling solo a lot because I liked that dynamic of staying in a hostel Every city I landed in instantly. I had a whole bunch of new friends that explore the city, really enjoyed that community aspect and I guess I kind of got the bug of hospitality there in the hostelling world as a guest and just kind of experiencing how fun that was. So when that experience wrapped up and I returned to San Francisco, I wanted to get involved and so I just reached out. I talked to some people that were part of the Hostelling International USA group and in the Bay Area and there's this opportunity that opened up, so I jumped into it from there.

That's amazing, see, I missed out on that. I never stayed in a hostel. My wife has. Both. My brothers did, I think, because when I was finished with college, I just started working right away and they all took time off to go travel the world. So what caught your? Was it just because there was a community around it? Was it because it was cheap? Was it because it was more adventurous? What did you like best about that world?

Yeah, I mean it was all I could afford, to be honest. So I think the cheap was kind of what made it possible. The community aspect was big. I found I liked the opportunity to meet people from all over Europe, all around the world, and for someone, I grew up as a kid in the Bay Area and then I spent high school and my college experience was in the Midwest and so in those environments I met less people from around the world, and so it was a refreshing sort of experience to start meeting such a broad range of people and I just I felt very alive and so I think I felt hooked from that point onwards.

I love it. So you're working in the lighthouse. How long do you end up working there?

I worked there for a little less than a year, so it wasn't a really long experience and it was it sounds like a lot they were doing a lot in there. I was doing a lot in there, yeah, and it was a part time job, so it wasn't it wasn't full time, but I would I would you know work a number of days every week there, and we was trying to figure out some internet stuff at the same time. So it was an interesting balance where, again, this is the early rise of social media, and so I was sort of doing two things. That was my first hospitality front lines experience and then, on the side, I was noticing the rise of Twitter and Facebook and platforms like this, and I was hearing both from this job and other folks that I was starting to meet. Hospitality providers were trying to think what can we do with this? How does this affect how we provide hospitality? And so, on the side, sometimes it was nights and weekends and at a couple of days during the week that I was not working at that property. So I started a blog called Hotel Marketing Strategies and it was simply, I would talk to people and try to figure out how can we use some of these new platforms to extend the way that we provide hospitality, and so we were all trying to figure it out together. I did not have all the answers, but I was trying to. I was trying to learn myself, to be honest, and I was trying to help people as as we went. And so over the course of five years, that ended up growing to about 70,000 readers a month and it sort of took on a life of its own, because it was a whole new area that people were were trying to learn, and so it was a really interesting learning experience to have that frontline experience combined with some of the opportunities that social media and digital communication provided, because it gives you that global perspective.

Right yeah, and it was amazing because I was one of those readers, so we were coming up around the same time. So when you were building that, I was just starting at the Los Mayan Beach Hotel and using Facebook and Twitter to like hey, come, check out Mojito Madness and some people would like it, and people will come, but I used to read your blog, so it's amazing to see that we're talking now, these years later. How did that start to evolve? Because you really started becoming like the new source. Did it kind of freak you out when people started coming to you to like with PR and saying, hey, can you share this story? Like can you kind of show how that evolved from like scratching your own itch to people and then come in to ask you how it's done?

It surprised me, to be honest, because it just started from curiosity and I think in retrospect, you know I probably could have been smarter with some business aspects of it. But there's something about following your curiosity and just kind of seeing where it goes. I think that's kind of a thread that I've noticed throughout my career. It's I like to plan and this is where it becomes. It becomes interesting because I enjoy that planning process, but I found, as life unfolds, you never quite see opportunities as they come up, and so I found the one thread that has served me well is constantly looking for what seems interesting, exciting, what am I curious about? And then putting in the work. I think sometimes, you know, especially in the digital media world, everything can look like easy and and everybody goes viral. There's a lot, a lot of work behind the scenes, and so you have to combine curiosity with a lot of hard work and sticking with something to build a little momentum.

It's really that consistency right, like for listeners out there. It's true, like I'm. This podcast just started as, hey, we're going to interview some friends, and it's turned into this thing where people are reaching out by staying consistent. Is that what you saw, too? Just because you like forced yourself to do this thing every day or every week, like, how often were you working on this?

I was spending hours every day and then for and I was probably working too hard and in retrospect it was it was a seven day a week thing where I was all in for again Like at least a period of five years, and so a lot, of, a lot of work in. I think if you're working on a problem You're not interested by, it's impossible to sustain that. Even if you have a big financial outcome, it's impossible to be genuinely interested for a long time on something, and so I think that's what you know. Now I'm back and spending my time publishing, but it's something that you have to. You have to be interested by. I Think one thing, if we could one kind of yeah for sure, one out, one notion I want to kind of dispel is, I think some people I talked to when, when they're in this world of learning or Sharing things, there's a bit of a zero-sum mindset, and I think what's really important I've been in and around media for a long time now and what's really exciting to see is people hospitality providers, others who are really generous with their ideas and they're sharing what's working for them. That Is always going to serve you well, right, I think, if I look at even the top CEOs, the ones that seem to be growing the fastest, attracting the best people, are Extremely generous with sharing their ideas, what they're thinking about, the invest in in this, and and so this is not not a zero-sum game. We can all grow together and and do well together.

No, I agree with you and that's why I like having you on and I love talking to the other Podcasters and people in this space because I get to learn so much from everybody that's coming through and sharing like your knowledge. You share with me in the past too, so you know, when you're building this, you start becoming featured in the old-school news places like CNN and PBS and MSNBC, and then you're invited to be a keynote speaker. I got freaked out when I got invited to be on a couple of things and I'm like, wow, but they want me to be there. Was that something that happened? You have any imposter syndrome at the start, or were you like all in as it Started going?

oh so much. You have no idea. You have no idea. So I had never, ever given any sort of public speaking or public presentation outside of my my college class, right, so never did anything like this. I get an email. I was actually. I remember clearly. I was visiting my parents in Michigan. I was there for a couple of weeks, I was on a long bike ride and I check and I get this email somebody from Italy and they're inviting me to present In this conference in Florence, and I had never done this. It seems super intimidating. I'm a pretty shy guy, I'm pretty introverted, and so it was about as far out of my comfort zone as you could imagine. But it also seemed like a growth opportunity and in retrospect I'm so glad I did that, because what ended up happening is you know. So there was At least let's see four or five months from the time I got that email to the time of the event. In the weeks that followed I put together a presentation and then I practiced it every single day for months on end. I joined Toastmasters and so I went way overboard. But I wanted to, I wanted to help people, I wanted to kind of share what I was seeing, and the presentation was just that I was. It was a collection of things that I saw that were the most interesting things, and I probably it was not the world's best presentation I know that for a fact but it was. It was it. I think it helped some people and for me personally, putting myself out there led to other speaking engagements. It also led to my first role at a technology company, and so that was that event was in Italy. I met the CEO of, at that point, a very young company. I think there's about 10 people at the company that was based in Barcelona. He invited me to come to Barcelona spend a week there, and I had no Commitments and so I did. I just flew to Barcelona, spent a week with the team and Really fell in love with a problem that they were they were solving, ended up spending a good chunk of time there. But it's just interesting where one thing leads to another right.

Yeah, it's just amazing, like this journey is. You start putting yourself out there, like you said, you start noticing these things, and it's just I'm thinking about things that are happening to me now After a year and change of just kind of doing this. All this is on these opportunities they're starting to pop up that I never would have expected. So it's just I'm looking at your story and that was, you know, 2013 was the last year you were doing that and that's where I want to kind of talk about so you're making, I'm sure, some decent money to be able to survive with that website and the news and all of speaking engagements You're doing. Why did that come to an end?

So I wasn't making a lot. You know, again, I could have been smarter with some of the business perspective there, but I was. I was just a young kid and I was like basically just just making enough to Barely do it and and have some ramen. I was really scrapping for a long time and I was so obsessed with what I was doing. So I think you know that that doesn't have to be everybody's story, but I think for me I was. I came from a family with no business background and just I didn't know. But you kind of figure things out over time. But from there that visit to Barcelona led to a job there and Over the course of a number of years, what I was seeing, both with the blog and then I the opportunity saw this technology company was so many people were sharing their travel experiences online, right, and so there's this opportunity for hospitality providers to collect that and then better understand not only how can I improve, but what do people want out there if they're talking about what they like and dislike about hotels or restaurants, and then how do you craft an offering that meets needs in the market and addresses that? So you can, you can improve by listening and Into lighting people and you can. You can do well financially by doing that, and so it was a really interesting problem. I think I encourage those listening to think about a problem that kind of captures your imagination that you think really needs to be solved. Life's too short to to Work on problems that that don't really need to be solved right. There's enough problems in the world that need to get out there. So think about a big problem that you can be a part of, of Solving and get after it, and and so I think that led to a decade of growth, leadership roles at technology companies that had global scale, and so I led sales and marketing and partnerships teams, and it gave me a really unique perspective because I worked with tens of thousands of hotels Around the world. My book of business was about 50% Europe, maybe 30% in the US and 20% in APAC, so I got to see what the best brands were doing, what they were not doing, a lot of time with different executives, and so I think that's especially for people earlier in their careers it's really helpful to think about how do you put yourself in environments where you're seeing a lot and you're learning a lot, really optimizing for that rate of Rate of learning and so I want to talk that, because the company we're talking about is review pro right, and so you join them in 2014 in Barcelona and you start growing with them because you're with them for like six years and you said, like you were employee number 12 or 11 early, as you kind of came in there.

So what was it like when you come into a company that? What was the final number when you left? Was it a couple thousand people, a couple hundred people?

Yeah, I think I like to. I spent too long in kind of tech circles where some of those those numbers I find personally a little misleading, because you know we had Exactly, yeah, you have a lot of people and also just kind of you look at the funding and things like that. There's a lot of numbers that could be a little smoke and mirrors, you know. So we were serving tens of thousands of hotels worldwide. We had, you know, hundreds of people, but I think the big number I look at is like what is the scope of, of Impact you're making right and so serving tens of thousands of hotels? You think about the millions and millions of guests that are impacted because they engage with these tens of thousands of hotels. And so we ended up selling. The company is now part of shiji group and, you know, part of a collection of technology companies. But it was really interesting journey. I, you know, have to give a shout out to, to RJ Freelander, who hired me as the founder CEO and Also determined to meet you, the co-founders, but they really invested a lot in kind of sharing with me what they were seeing and Opportunities and helping me grow. And you know, I know this show. This show is called the hospitality mentor and you've spoken consistently around the opportunity for People who have seen things and are building things to bring others along with them. Right, think about how do you Provide access for the people on your teams, how do you provide, how do you share what you're seeing? How do you bring them along because they're gonna remember that, they're gonna remember that it's gonna up level this, the talent level on your team, and life is long. You know we ended up selling that company and everybody's doing different things, but you don't forget that kind of stuff, right, and so it's really. It's an opportunity, I think, for whoever's listening, regardless of the role you're in. I bet there's some access or Learnings that you're having now that you could bring some others along that ride with you.

And there's people and the reason I was asking is we have people who write into me. They're saying, hey, I'm at a SaaS company and we're we went from 10 to 25 people this year and that's a gigantic jump and you know, it's hard for them to see, like how to control everything as they're making these jumps. So you are with a company that kind of made that transition. What would be advice maybe for those couple of people who've written to us that you would say is like, hey, stay focused on these couple things as you're growing.

You really have to dial into the problem that you're solving and you can't just make that in a boardroom. It needs to be made alongside your client partners, right? So the people that you're working with, if you, if you believe the reason you exist is to help people, make sure that that is actually the case. You're not just telling yourself that story. So, regardless of their business, whether it's a SaaS, tech business or some other sort of business a lot of time with the people that you're Serving, talking with them. Ideally, even better is observing people using whatever product you're using, and and sometimes there's things that we don't Don't come to mind in a conversation but you, you watch someone using what you've made and you see if it works out, and I think that's even true for the hospitality providers. You just watch people as they interact with your property. You know, and kind of what's true? So working what's not working, right.

And so you were got to see a lot of comments, a lot of feedback from millions of guests through review pro. Yeah were you feeling like you could walk into a hotel and understand what needed to be done, even though you hadn't truly worked other than in hostels? Could you feel that, when you're walking in places Like this, is what the guests wants, this is what you need to do, this is what you're missing?

a little bit. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the advantage of scale technology you start to see trends dramatically over time. I think where there's a lot of nuance to this is it's sort of impossible to build the perfect hotel, because the best brands that I saw then and I see now are Actually have a really clear point of view and they're okay with a lot of people not loving them, and so I think an early example of that was citizen M hotels, which had this modular building concept. Obviously, they're continuing to accelerate growth, they're continuing to do well, but it doesn't work for a lot of people and even for some people. On this on, if you look at one trip over another, might work on one trip and might not, but they have this very clear point of view where we shouldn't spend time in our rooms, we should spend time in the common areas and, and so it's polarizing right and it's. It's really important to have that point of view. Otherwise, everything starts ending up the same, and I've I've actually seen that recently with a lot of lifestyle hotels, especially the, the more the ones that have a little bit of scale, and it looks like they're chasing Maybe what was cool with I don't know ace hotel 10, 15 years ago and they're trying to do that scale now and it has much of the same design aesthetic, but it doesn't have the spirit of If feeling authentic and real. It just doesn't land. It doesn't land.

Now, I know what you're saying. There's a lot of old-school light bulbs out there and you know we can talk about that in a separate way of how they're all starting to look exactly the same, but so how they sell the company. You have to make a choice. She probably to stay or move on, and you move on to another really good company. You go on to do it. Oh, is that kind of what happens?

Yeah. So I wanted to learn different aspects of what it is is like to to operate and and Invest in hospitality. And so, you know, I had some marketing exposure through what I did with hotel marketing strategies. Then I had the operations exposure through review pro, and so I wanted to understand the world of revenue management. I saw that increasingly becoming important. You know the whole commercial world of how do you bring money in the door right and how do you be smart about that. Obviously, airlines and others have done that well for a really long time and I started coming to someone yesterday that had a good analogy of an airline is essentially a bus in the sky and if they can be so precise with how they merchandise each little aspect of the experience, think about how much more we have to work with as hospitality providers. There's just a world of opportunity there and I know you and Sarah, on your very excellent recent episode, talked a little bit about kind of resort fees. We got a link to that in the show notes. People got to check that out. It was amazing conversation, but I think there's still so much opportunity ahead in that world of revenue management and there's a way to do that that brings money into these businesses that fund things that we enjoy as a guest. You know the design, the service that takes money right, and then, as people working in the business, we want to pay people well, we want to offer training, we want to offer good benefits, but again, this takes money, and so I think that's where revenue management becomes important, and it's important to frame that as not just okay, technology is here to gouge me and you know, charge sky high rates. It's really kind of getting into the ecosystem of this is what makes this possible, and so I still see so much opportunity there in the world of revenue management. I think so too.

I've been in some of those rooms where you're really just looking at, like what's the other big hotels doing? How can we just make sure we stay in line, that we're not too far over or too far under? And it's not an exact science by any means, so there's still a lot of help. I'm hoping to see some AI tools that come out there and can read a lot of data quickly and help, so it'll be interesting. But you help grow Duetta, which is now for listeners. If you're not in that hotel world, it's really a common name used by many hotels and you were ahead of growth for a long time. Well, not for a long time, but you were there building this brand. What was it that people wanted from it so much?

I think there's the business opportunity with revenue management. But I would say, like, even outside of that opportunity, which I think is very real and important for people to think about If I just think about my role of growth and for a period I oversaw the entire marketing function and so there's a couple levers that we looked at there that were important in the sense of a big investment that was made. It was an education. And so Jason Freed, who's an incredible former journalist, still very, very active in educating the industry, said another company now, but he's always had this relentless pursuit on what are people at the leading edge of innovation doing? And then how do I share those best practices out? And so I had the good fortune to work with him closely on the education piece. And the other big piece of this was events, and so I looked after the events team there and we did a lot of events, from the big conferences to smaller get-togethers and meals, and I had an awesome guy running that, steve Palmason, who just had a real Mac for understanding how do you read a room and pull the different partners together. He had this great phrase that has never left me about great event managers are sort of like a duck and super calm on the surface and then just paddling like mad below the surface, and so I'm really bullish on events. Honestly, we're recording this in 2023. And I have to again give you a shout out, steve, for just how you've helped us collectively think about events. I think, and it's been really, really cool over the past months to see that event that you hosted and you're kind of sharing your journey. I think it was cool. For those that were there, I wish I could have been there, but for those of us that couldn't make it, you were really open in sharing. You know, here's the highlights and it looked incredible, the photos were incredible, you got partners together and you're also generous, coming on hospitality daily and talking a little bit behind the scenes. But I have to say, like on a personal level and a professional level, it's impacted me a lot because over the past couple months, I've been thinking a lot about how do I get people together in real life, right, and so it actually started in my personal life. I hosted, with my wife, a little get together for people in our neighborhood and we met at a local bar. It was pretty low key, but we had like 20, 25 people and made a lot of new friends there and it really made us feel more embedded in the community and honestly, it's one of the favorite things I've done this year, even though it was kind of outside of the world of worker hospitality. I just had the power of bringing people together. And then, in the hospitality world, I'm planning a little event here in San Francisco with a local community organizer called Manny's. We're going to get people talking about you know what's the role of hospitality and helping move San Francisco forward, which you know there's been, you know, some not so great news at times in the national media, but I feel like there's a story here that you see some really cool things being built and, regardless of what is the reality, I want us to move forward together. But anyway, long way of saying events are really really cool and I am truly grateful for your leadership and helping us all think about this. You know, in our communities, our neighborhoods, how do we convene people and help people grow and, you know, move forward.

I appreciate you saying that. Man, you know, you never know who's watching is what I've realized and I'm happy to hear it's inspired you, because that event I thought I remember telling my wife the night before like I hope like 20 people show up at least, and then to see over 200 people come was amazing. And then to hear afterwards people met each other who hadn't met, are making business deals and they're making things happen together and I just think that's it's very cool to see that the power of getting together in real life, because we spend so much time on screens and it's great uncertain things like we get to talk like this across the country. But I love getting people in the rooms and shaking hands and getting to know each other. So you keep doing them. I don't know what's going to come of them. My dad even asked me he listens to every podcast, like so what are you getting out of this? I was like I don't know. But I know that in high school the cool guy would host the party and everyone would get to know each other and they would hang out more. So that's what I wanted to get from this and we'll see what the next ones bring, but I just know it was great to get people together.

Well, I think there's a piece there that it's sometimes interesting to kind of think about this on a. You know, if we kind of zoom up, what's really interesting is to see you know what you're doing to help us collectively get better. So if you're listening to this episode as a one-off, you need to make sure to subscribe to the hospitality mentor in your podcast player. Send it for the email, subscribe on YouTube. You got to get into the ecosystem here, but you're connecting kind of the digital storytelling element of it, right. And then I think you and I were talking about this event and you invited past guests to the in-person event and I feel like that's really kind of the opportunity for all of us is to kind of take advantage of the podcast, you know. So podcasts are insane, if I don't think people. If you're listening to this, you at least have heard one podcast. But it is wild. I've been listening to podcasts for 15 years. It is the best thing that has happened to me. It has made the biggest difference in my career. It's wild that you know whether you're shopping, you're doing errands, getting groceries, you're doing your morning workout, you're doing your commute. You have the chance to listen in on some of the most insightful, creative people in the world and you're almost in these rooms that years ago we had no chance of or you would hear. You know a leader in your organization. You have the opportunity to listen in on some of the smartest, most helpful people at your convenience, you know. Just think about that. It is insane. And so I think some people out there sleeping on podcasts and the power of it to transform you know their lives, you know their careers, and so I just encourage everybody listening. You know, have a growth mindset around this. You know you maybe you're winning now, but you know if you go to sleep on a win, you'll you'll wake up to a loss, right? You can't, you can't sleep on this kind of stuff. You always got to stay learning and growing, and podcasts are just such an incredible way to do that. So I appreciate what you're doing to help us all learn here.

No, and you too, and I got to give a shout out because I've only talked to him one other time. I don't know him, but this guy, jake Wurzak, who has Wurzak Hotel, started a podcast called Masters of Moments, and I've been looking more and more into investments and it's like getting a masters by listening to the guests he's having on, because they're all the CEOs and heads of major investment firms and hotel companies, and we're working on a project for a micro resort here in Miami and they're talking about that with a mon and I'm on Geary and how they're. That's all they want to do, and I was like, oh my god, we're on to something. They're doing it too.

So it's just funny to hear you're in this room with other people so we could geek out on that afterwards, and so I do need to pick up on one thing, though, on that investment piece I love that you're doing this and I love that you're sharing the journey to what you're doing Right, because I would like our listeners to think more about what getting involved in the world of investment may look like. Again, this is the show is not about investment advice, but think about like how can you get yourself in a position where you can you can take part financially and some of the upsides of this this industry most interesting place to, to work, to operate, to invest, to spend your time now, and it will be for decades to come. We're just getting started, I think. If you think about some of the tailwinds behind the industry, if you think about when are cultures going, what people value, how they're spending money, this is not just some sort of post pandemic little waiver riding. We are just getting started. In many ways, this is an old industry, but it's day one of opportunity. We're just getting started now, and so I think this is such an incredible place and I I think it's so cool what you're building. I can't wait to watch your journey, but I think for our listeners starting to think about you know what does it look like to to to start, you know, participating as an investor, as an owner, at some point. I think there may be some innovations coming down the line that allow you know, all of us, even if we don't have a ton of money to start participating. So it's it's time to start educating ourselves on what the potential here is, and I think I had my eyes open to that a little bit. I spent the last couple years of my technology career working at an investment management company, got to see investment from across the US, all different sorts of asset classes and Just some of the power of investing in hospitality real estate.

So let's jump into that. So where did you go to start learning that what it was, a company? So you made a jump from dueto. I want to hear how you got into that work, because you started a little bit of operations. Now We've got, you know, the reviews, then we got revenue management, then you start getting into investments. It was that part of the plan, or is it? You just met someone along the way?

I did want to learn that it was a little bit of both. It was a little bit of both. I did want to learn each of the aspects of the hospitality ecosystem, and so investment was, was sort of the final one, and again, technology companies provide the ability to learn at scale, and so Juniper Square is the Largest platform for a private investment management and so it works with, initially, just real estate investors at private equity and venture capital investors. But if you think about it like you know, whatever investment management platform you use, whether it's, you know, charles Schwab or whatever your investment portal is for public stocks, you know there's a, you know you log in, you kind of see what you have. You can buy a couple shares. That doesn't exist for private markets, private investing, right, but Juniper Square is building that. That's our digitized environment. So I joined them to lead growth and I to a question of how did I learn it? It was a deep dive in a whole new world I had. I knew nothing about. You know, I just don't come from that background, but, again, a lot of conversations talked to my colleagues and really smart people at the firm, but also the people we were working with, and so you know, you just kind of see how people with money allocate capital, what decisions they make. You know how they they look at opportunities. And what really fascinated me and I think Jake Wurzak is a really good ambassador and it can make the case in a very articulate way but what I was finding is that if you're investing in apartments or industrial, you know, like warehouses, stuff like that, they can be interesting investments. But what's so interesting in hospitality is there's so many more levers to work with right, whether it's design or guest service or revenue management. It makes it's sort of like a high-risk, high reward environment where if you're just cruising, you're probably not gonna do really well, but if you really dial into the details of these things, there's really interesting opportunities. And so that was a really phenomenal experience and you know I still work with them a little bit as an advisor, but it's it's been really fun to kind of look at that aspect of the industry in addition to some of these, these other functions.

Well, for listeners out there, I want to get involved in it, so send me a message. I want to get more into investments and owning. We don't have all the money yet at least I don't but I'm happy to earn it somehow. If you're listening, so send me a message. And just, I had to well, both help you get this thing off the ground. So we are talking about Juniper Square, you're learning about investments, but then you start doing your own right? Is that what I'm reading, right? So what happens after you leave Juniper?

I left there to build a media brand, hospitality daily, and this is Sort of the combination of everything and I've done in my career so far and this is gonna be my life's work. I'm gonna spend the rest of my life doing this. I'm all in on this. I'm in this because I believe there's an opportunity for people who are building things, people who are sharing, people who are growing together, for us all to learn together. So it's a community of of people who are out there doing things, learning, growing. You know people like yourself who are generous with their perspective. My belief is that we can collectively all rise together. We could do interesting things. This is not a zero-sum game. We can all do really well for ourselves, for our families, for our communities, by learning and growing together. And so what I'm doing there is is combining my background in media you know this operations, revenue, investment, look at the industry Globally and and look at the most interesting builders out there, giving them an opportunity to tell their stories and then giving all of us a chance to learn from them, and so that we can not just listen, but we can then go out to our own communities and do something. I think that's the key part that I'm doing and and where I want to really encourage everybody. You know that that's that's out here is to. You know, take some of these ideas. Don't just let it be a podcast that you turn off and and go on to the next one, but think about anything you listen to, right, what's one little thing there that you can bring into today, right, or this week, and really kind of translate that to action. That's where that's we're gonna do. Well, I.

I love it, and so you're building this and I've been. It's just impressive what you've built in a short amount of time, because you're posting daily, yeah. And so for people out there I say, man, it's overwhelming. I want to start, but what tip would you give to somebody if they wanted to start just getting more out there on social media or building their reputation online or building their brand? Like, what advice would you give to somebody?

Share what you're working on. It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be polished. If I think about you know some people I'm thinking of James Ferguson at actually the worst at a hotel group you mentioned there you go, that's their operating group and he does a really interesting job. He's out there building the culture, training people, empowering their teams. He takes little photos, he takes videos, he shares things that he's thinking about. I don't know how long it takes him, but he's kind of sharing the journey, right. And wherever you are in this ecosystem, think about, kind of, what are you working on? How do I share that out? You have no idea how much this will help you, I think, on a personal level, with your career. It probably will create opportunities for yourself, but you're inspiring people within your organization and outside of your organization, and hospitality industry is this way, where you know, over the course of a career you'll probably work for a bunch of different organizations, right? So this is a great way to build your network and, you know, don't be too precious with it. It doesn't have to be fancy. I do all my production and myself and it's a one-man band here, and it's just about how do we kind of share what we're working on and inspire each other and learn and grow together.

So I want to nerd out a little bit selflessly for myself. So, listeners, you're going to come along with me. What tools are you using to make sure you get this workflow going?

Yeah, I mean, I think you can start small. I actually started just with Zoom. You can get a free account. You know, just started recording over there. You know, it doesn't take a travel budget. You can just jump on and get started. I think, as you get fancier, I use the tool called Riverside to record. It just gives you a couple more options. I think there is one thing I really recommend people doing is invest in a great microphone. It doesn't need to be expensive, but for about a hundred bucks you can get a really high quality microphone and if you're going to appear on a podcast, then you should invest in this right. If you won't invest $100, you shouldn't appear on a podcast right. This is an investment you're making in yourself, your investment you're making in your future, and so treat this stuff seriously. You know, when you're creating something online, it's going to live online forever, so invest in that. See it as the opportunity that it is and a chance for you to not only tell your story but do well for yourself and your organization.

And listeners. I use a sure mic. I'm not sure what you've got over there is sure as well. See sure mic.

I got a whole collection, yeah, yeah.

Nice and easy. Best purchase I made. That's all I invested into in a StreamYard account. So, as you're collecting information, are you using like a sauna or air table or one of these tools to collect all the information you're going, or do you have just an Excel sheet or a Google Doc for all the news articles you want to put out every day?

I use a tool called Pocket. It's like a little browser plugin. I can save stuff and it makes it a little bit easier to read.

Love it All right. So back to your story here. So you're building this. You've kind of given us the mission you have. What are you most excited about, not in the next five years, but in the next six to 12 months that you're working on?

I want to get better at storytelling. It's kind of the main focus I have. You know it's a complex game, there's a lot of layers to it, right, and it's relatively easy to record a conversation. But I want to get a little bit better at the production side and kind of teasing out what is the most useful part of this conversation for someone. I think for the hospitality daily has run a mission to inform and inspire people on what's possible, right. So I want to make it practical. I want to give people some takeaways, right, that they can kind of end their commute and head into their work day with a little nugget they can put to work, and so I want to make that as easy and digestible and accessible for people as possible. There's so much talent in the hospitality industry and I think we're. You know it's really exciting to kind of see the folks out there and just the generosity of people's being willing to share their learnings and perspective which you consistently hear on the hospitality mentor. So you also got to be subscribed there as well, because it's just an incredible opportunity.

I appreciate the shout outs, many of them. Josiah, you shared a lot with us. But I have one last question. You've been really all over the world. You've had all different kind of companies you've worked with, You've started your own companies. But if young Josiah was starting out today, what advice would you have for him if he was starting right now?

I worked for myself early in my career and I think there's some pros and cons to that. If I was doing it over, I would move into an environment that gave me more exposure faster and earlier when I was younger. There's something to that You've got to make enough money to pay the bills, but there's something about being an environment where you have a mentor in your organization. It's almost less about the organization you're working for than the industry you're in. So think about hospitality broadly, like what sub-segment are you in? But even more importantly, the person you're going to work for. It makes a big, big difference on your growth opportunities. I think I would put myself in that environment early. It took me a couple of years to get myself into that environment, but then I learned so much so quickly, and so I think early in your career that's important. It's important at any stage, but especially early, and that's the advice I would give my younger self.

Well, I think that's great advice and a good place to end our conversation. And, josiah, if somebody wants to get in contact with you other than following you on hospitality daily, what's the best way they can do that?

LinkedIn. It's the place to be I love it.

That's true. We're all on there, so join us on LinkedIn if you're not on there yet. Well, josiah, I appreciate you very much. I'm very grateful you spent this time with me. I know how busy you are building the empire you're working on.

Thank you, steve, it's been fun.